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Thread: So what do you folks think about the Dow Jones Index?

  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newman View Post

    I came across this essay this morning:

    Too confident? Trump faces a slew of foreign policy challenges all at once
    Andrew Malcolm.
    Emphasis added.
    Retaliatory Chinese tariffs on U.S. agricultural goods are hurting farmers, badly. Trump has allocated $12 billion to ease the economic pain of lost sales and may soon proffer more, using tariff money collected from China.


    Emphasis added
    The reason Trump succeeded isnít that complicated after all. He didnít win the nomination by tapping into some nascent political movement. He won by doing a fairly good impression of a right-wing media celebrity. Every issue, every conspiracy, every applause line has been ripped from their websites, radio shows, and television programs. Itís why he became Americaís most prominent birther. Itís why he floated rumors that Ted Cruzís dad killed JFK, and that Hillary Clinton killed Vince Foster. Itís why he talks the way he does about Mexicans and Muslims and women and African Americans. Itís why heís been able to get away with knowing little to nothing about policy or government or world affairs ó because Trump, like any good talking head, only speaks in chyrons and clauses and some-people-are-sayings.

    Trumpís greatest trick has been to realize that right-wing media stars have a built-in audience that Republican politicians donít. To that audience, Jeb Bush talks like Washington talks. Ted Cruz talks like conservative ideologues talk. Marco Rubio talks like the last consultant he spoke with talks. But Trump talks like a true talk radio fan ó longtime listener, first-time caller. He comes off like the winner of a reality TV show in which one lucky Fox viewer gets picked to run for president of the United States.

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Jingo View Post
    Retaliatory Chinese tariffs on U.S. agricultural goods are hurting farmers, badly. Trump has allocated $12 billion to ease the economic pain of lost sales and may soon proffer more, using tariff money collected from China.


    Emphasis added
    So what? Our government always picks winners and losers.

    Mark
    Race Card: A tool of the intellectually weak and lazy when they cannot counter a logical argument or factual data.

    "Liberals have to stop insisting that the world is what they want it to be instead of the way it is." - Bill Maher

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    Gender is not a "Social Construct", it is an outgrowth of biological reality.

  3. #183
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    Tariffs are not collected from China. Tariffs are collected from importers and paid by their customers.

    Patriotism is of its nature defensive, both militarily and culturally. Nationalism, on the other hand, is inseparable from the desire for power. The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality.
    -George Orwell, Notes on Nationalism

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  5. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm dePlume View Post
    Tariffs are not collected from China. Tariffs are collected from importers and paid by their customers.
    The tariffs, leveled at various nations and products, have been absorbed (not paid) by different entities in reality but they are paid by the importer of record.

    And no, China ain't paying jack shit.
    The reason Trump succeeded isnít that complicated after all. He didnít win the nomination by tapping into some nascent political movement. He won by doing a fairly good impression of a right-wing media celebrity. Every issue, every conspiracy, every applause line has been ripped from their websites, radio shows, and television programs. Itís why he became Americaís most prominent birther. Itís why he floated rumors that Ted Cruzís dad killed JFK, and that Hillary Clinton killed Vince Foster. Itís why he talks the way he does about Mexicans and Muslims and women and African Americans. Itís why heís been able to get away with knowing little to nothing about policy or government or world affairs ó because Trump, like any good talking head, only speaks in chyrons and clauses and some-people-are-sayings.

    Trumpís greatest trick has been to realize that right-wing media stars have a built-in audience that Republican politicians donít. To that audience, Jeb Bush talks like Washington talks. Ted Cruz talks like conservative ideologues talk. Marco Rubio talks like the last consultant he spoke with talks. But Trump talks like a true talk radio fan ó longtime listener, first-time caller. He comes off like the winner of a reality TV show in which one lucky Fox viewer gets picked to run for president of the United States.

  6. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Jingo View Post

    And no, China ain't paying jack shit.
    Oh for chrissakes. Did you get an economics degree from Boston University or something?

    Tariffs hurt the exporter and protect (subsidize) local producers.

    Tariffs are imposed and raise the cost of the item to the consumer. Consequently the goods are less competitive and sell less, as consumers choose other manufacturers. Selling fewer goods hurts the Chinese.

    Consider a country that puts a 100% tariff on cars we make and export to them. That doubles the price of our cars to their consumers, and gives them a good incentive to choose locally made cars. We sell fewer cars.

    Tariffs are used to protect local producers ("protectionism"). They are commonly used to allow local industries to mature and become competitive, which is why Democrats claiming to represent union workers and such, generally support them.

    And yes, they raise prices in general to the consumer, which is why conservatives and "globalists" generally oppose them. Including me.

    But I'm not joining the Chicken Little crowd because we're pushing to revise China's trade and piracy habits.

    Habits which even Norm says need to stop.

    Unfortunately, they won't stop without some hard-headed negotiating, and this is what it looks like.
    "We have to stop demonizing people and realize the biggest terror threat in this country is white men, most of them radicalized to the right, and we have to start doing something about them." óCNN's Don Lemon, showing how to stop demonizing people.

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  8. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newman View Post
    Habits which even Norm says need to stop.
    You are incredibly dense.

    Patriotism is of its nature defensive, both militarily and culturally. Nationalism, on the other hand, is inseparable from the desire for power. The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality.
    -George Orwell, Notes on Nationalism

  9. #187
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    Another alternative: We impose a 50% tariff on Chinese goods. China may choose to subsidize their producers such that their cost to us would be 50% less, and so would appear unchanged even with the tariff.

    It's a temporary dodge at best, and violates other agreements, but they might try it if they think time is on their side.
    "We have to stop demonizing people and realize the biggest terror threat in this country is white men, most of them radicalized to the right, and we have to start doing something about them." óCNN's Don Lemon, showing how to stop demonizing people.

  10. #188
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    And Mexico's gonna pay for it.

    That was sarcasm, Newman.

    Patriotism is of its nature defensive, both militarily and culturally. Nationalism, on the other hand, is inseparable from the desire for power. The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality.
    -George Orwell, Notes on Nationalism

  11. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm dePlume View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Newman
    Habits which even Norm says need to stop.
    You are incredibly dense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Norm dePlume View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 80zephyr
    China was taking advantage of us. Its time it stopped. I say again, they need us a hell of a lot more than we need them.
    Quote Originally Posted by 80zephyr
    Do we need China to fold? No. We could actually go on without them. Can't get better than that, Norm.
    It's time they stopped, but we don't need them to fold.
    Get back under your bridge, Norm.
    "We have to stop demonizing people and realize the biggest terror threat in this country is white men, most of them radicalized to the right, and we have to start doing something about them." óCNN's Don Lemon, showing how to stop demonizing people.

  12. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newman View Post
    Oh for chrissakes. Did you get an economics degree from Boston University or something?

    Tariffs hurt the exporter and protect (subsidize) local producers.

    Tariffs are imposed and raise the cost of the item to the consumer. Consequently the goods are less competitive and sell less, as consumers choose other manufacturers. Selling fewer goods hurts the Chinese.

    Consider a country that puts a 100% tariff on cars we make and export to them. That doubles the price of our cars to their consumers, and gives them a good incentive to choose locally made cars. We sell fewer cars.

    Tariffs are used to protect local producers ("protectionism"). They are commonly used to allow local industries to mature and become competitive, which is why Democrats claiming to represent union workers and such, generally support them.

    And yes, they raise prices in general to the consumer, which is why conservatives and "globalists" generally oppose them. Including me.

    But I'm not joining the Chicken Little crowd because we're pushing to revise China's trade and piracy habits.

    Habits which even Norm says need to stop.

    Unfortunately, they won't stop without some hard-headed negotiating, and this is what it looks like.
    Yeah.

    China ainít paying jack shit.
    The reason Trump succeeded isnít that complicated after all. He didnít win the nomination by tapping into some nascent political movement. He won by doing a fairly good impression of a right-wing media celebrity. Every issue, every conspiracy, every applause line has been ripped from their websites, radio shows, and television programs. Itís why he became Americaís most prominent birther. Itís why he floated rumors that Ted Cruzís dad killed JFK, and that Hillary Clinton killed Vince Foster. Itís why he talks the way he does about Mexicans and Muslims and women and African Americans. Itís why heís been able to get away with knowing little to nothing about policy or government or world affairs ó because Trump, like any good talking head, only speaks in chyrons and clauses and some-people-are-sayings.

    Trumpís greatest trick has been to realize that right-wing media stars have a built-in audience that Republican politicians donít. To that audience, Jeb Bush talks like Washington talks. Ted Cruz talks like conservative ideologues talk. Marco Rubio talks like the last consultant he spoke with talks. But Trump talks like a true talk radio fan ó longtime listener, first-time caller. He comes off like the winner of a reality TV show in which one lucky Fox viewer gets picked to run for president of the United States.

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