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Thread: Warren Rule: Minimum Wage Earner Should Be Able to Afford Spouse, Child and Mortgage

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillygirl View Post
    I am not impressed with people born into wealth.
    Some people are.

    I don't know that waitressing at 13 shows much other than a need and willingness to work.
    Grit, it my opinion. And an impressive amount of determination and a sense of duty at an early age. I get that I tend to value labor a great deal more than most, and manual work is seen by some as an indication of being "low class" (did you hear AOC was a bartender? Yuk yuk yuk), but I find the embrace of it at 13 commendable.

    Perhaps the bar is pretty low these days.
    I don't see being impressed with someone working a job at 13 as a low bar.
    “Totalitarianism in power invariably replaces all first-rate talents, regardless of their sympathies, with those crackpots and fools whose lack of intelligence and creativity is still the best guarantee of their loyalty.”

    ~ Hannah Arendt

  2. #22
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    13? Hell, I had years in by then.

    Mark
    Race Card: A tool of the intellectually weak and lazy when they cannot counter a logical argument or factual data.

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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott View Post
    So are you saying we can equate earnings in 1959 with earnings today?
    Did I say anything resembling that? No? Well then, no.

    On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
    -H. L. Mencken

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm dePlume View Post
    Did I say anything resembling that? No? Well then, no.
    My point stands then. We cannot equate 1959 earnings with earnings today.

    If Warren wants to help people she should argue for less government and lower taxes.
    "What truly matters is not which party controls our government, but whether our government is controlled by the people. January 20th 2017, will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again. The forgotten men and women of our country will be forgotten no longer."

    link

    Time will tell.

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  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillygirl View Post
    Really? Back then most did that kind of work. My brother is significantly younger than Warren and he was on the books at McDonalds and gas stations at just a year older than she was when she started. The laws have changed (at least here in PA) so that's not permitted anymore, but it happened quite a bit back then. Nobody was impressed that I was pulling in around $100 a week when I was twelve through babysitting and lawn cutting. it was simply expected. If I wanted new clothes or to socialize with my friends, that's what I needed to do. Later, when the family wasn't together, that was needed for basic survival, rather than the luxury of being a pre-teen.
    What she said.

    I was raised in what most people around here would call an "upper middle class" situation: we lived in the suburbs (really what they would call "ex-urbs" now: we were surrounded by farmland, though now it's all expensive subdivision), we had a house that was certainly adequate for a family of six (all four of us boys had our own bedrooms) but far from luxurious, we were never at risk of actually going hungry for dinner (though it was Mom's careful husbandry of the grocery budget that kept that from happening, so we had a fair number of pretty inexpensive meals), we had two cars (a used Oldsmobile that I vomited in almost immediately after we got it and a baseline Chevy, not Cadillacs or Lincolns), and we had a color television (later; we had a black-and-white until I was about 5, and we got a 16" color as a Christmas gift just in time to watch M*A*S*H in color). It was still absolutely an expectation that we would do work starting at an early age: chores like mowing the yard or weeding or cleaning the garage or whatever starting practically from being a toddler, and actual remunerative work starting in the pre-teen years. Every year starting around spring break, starting when I was about 11 or 12, I would ride my bike around the neighborhood putting out flyers for grass-cutting, and I was shepherded by my father and brothers about how many clients to take on, which yards to accept for what price, etc. We were allowed to lay about in the summer, but only after we had served our clients and done whatever needed to be done at home. Allowance (which was about $2/week for me in the late '70s) stopped when we started earning. The expectation of getting chores done did not.

    All of us were expected to save up money in those pre-teen and early-teen years in order to buy a car, a necessity for getting a "real job" once we turned 16. So we'd sock away $1000 or $1500, which was enough to get a half-assed beater that would get us back and forth to work and school. And at 16, we were absolutely expected to get some sort of "real job," as was everyone else I knew. My first was a car wash when minimum wage was $3.35/hour. I dressed nicely for the interview, smiled, looked the owner in the eye when I shook his hand, and that got me a starting wage of $3.50/hour. A few weeks in, he was impressed enough with my work that he upped me to $4.00/hour, and I thought I was in tall cotton. But I was also absolutely on my own to get my ass out of bed in the morning, shower, shave, make my own breakfast, and get out the door in time to beat traffic to work well before 0700 when they opened. My brothers had their own paths: construction, car customization, door-to-door sales, etc. But we all were absolutely expected to get out there and work. Bear ye in mind that financially we didn't have to, but not getting work was just unacceptable in our family, and indeed in our neighborhood and culture: everyone would wonder why Johnny was just hanging around the neighborhood in the middle of June instead of working.

    We were also made to do volunteer work of some kind. We had our choice, but I went with the charity my father supported the most: the local Big Brothers (different from the national Big Brothers/Big Sisters; this one was wholly local and worked mostly to do things like alleviate hunger). Every year at Thanksgiving break, we went out and "sold" their "newspaper," which was just a way to collect funding. So we went out and drove around the wealthiest of neighborhoods (Belle Meade, mostly) and collected donations, and then come Christmas break, I would work packing boxes of food for the poor until I could drive, and then I went around delivering boxes of food. My father considered the latter very important: "you need to go and see how fortunate you really are, but you have to work for it," he would say. I would usually spend the first week of Christmas break from high school delivering about 150 boxes of food per day to people in poverty so abject that it would make Appalachian stereotypes seem like luxury. Fast-forward for pretty much every major holiday, the same thing: Easter, July 4, Thanksgiving (they put on a big deal to collect funds on Halloween), etc. The basic idea was that no one would go hungry on a major holiday, at the very least. Back then, Boy Scouts really reinforced this idea and worked closed with Big Brothers. I don't know if they still do that now.

    One of the things that causes me to categorize me as having come up "upper middle class" is that none of us ever had to "kick into the kitty" to keep the family afloat. A lot of my friends, however, did have to do that; the family depended upon that extra $50/week or whatever to ensure that everyone ate and the mortgage got paid. Absolutely nothing undignified in that, and particularly given the other abject poverty that I had been made to see, it seemed pretty dignified to me. We weren't all out there playing squash and golf all day every day, after all. We didn't have servants or "help." Every once in a blue moon Mom would hire Elberta to come and help around the house, though that was gone when I was an infant (probably because my elder brother insisted upon riding upon Elberta's vacuum cleaner for the sole purpose of overheating it by spreading his buttocks over the ventilation holes).



    Today, at least from my observation, virtually no one under 18 is actually out trying to engage in actual remunerative activities. I almost never see anyone who looks like a teenager working in a fast food job or janitorial work or at the car wash where I used to work or indeed almost anywhere else except for ethnic establishments (mostly restaurants) that are part of some manner of immigrant family. This is a problem, and that problem is not, emphasis not, due to immigrants. We've always had immigrants willing to come and work at lower wages (though that certainly is a problem, but that's a different thread). The problem is that we, as a society, are not kicking our kids out the door to go do stuff. This stretches from not telling them to get off the xBox and go ride their bikes to telling them that they can't sit in the basement and eat Cheetos when they should be out hustling up money somehow, whether that's a lemonade stand or cutting grass or taking (as a friend of mine did) a literally shitty job working with the sewer department during summer improvements. This failure is harming the youth of America, if you ask me.
    Leftists have unquestionably demonstrated their hatred for due process, and Democrats have undeniably obstructed justice for, and thoroughly victim-shamed and smeared, Karen Monahan.

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  8. #26
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    Part of why teens aren't working is because playing a sport in high school has become a nearly full time job. The level of time commitment is so intense that there is no time for a part time job on top of it. My nieces cheerleaders schedule was ridiculous, even though she gave up all Stars and joined the high school team instead in order to make the time commitment less demanding.
    Not where I breathe, but where I love, I live...
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  10. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillygirl View Post
    Part of why teens aren't working is because playing a sport in high school has become a nearly full time job. The level of time commitment is so intense that there is no time for a part time job on top of it. My nieces cheerleaders schedule was ridiculous, even though she gave up all Stars and joined the high school team instead in order to make the time commitment less demanding.
    Interesting. That's an angle I hadn't considered before.

    At least when I was in high school, the authorities (TSSAA) said that we could only have about two weeks of practice prior to the actual opening of school. I certainly remember the unmitigated misery of "two-a-days," but they only started in mid/late-August. Who knows if that's the same nowadays. I just hope that the coaches don't still forbid us from washing our T-shirts during two-a-days like they did when I was JV. There are rotting bodies that smelled better than that locker room after two weeks, but having to put on the same crusty T-shirt every day allegedly built character. I suppose the fact that the T-shirts actually fought back by about day 10 of practice in 95°F weather for ten hours per day probably did make some people a better lineman, but I still sucked as a right tackle. I digress....

    I will certainly agree that trying to turn high school (or even Jr. high) sports into something akin to a profession for teenagers is a terrible idea. It is, to me, reminiscent of this nerve-jangling "pageants" of seven-year-old girls who look like they could be walking the beat on Hollywood Boulevard.

    Leftists have unquestionably demonstrated their hatred for due process, and Democrats have undeniably obstructed justice for, and thoroughly victim-shamed and smeared, Karen Monahan.

  11. #28
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    Work changes you. Manual work (restaurants and so on) changes you a lot. As it should.

    In low-paid, manual work you meet everybody whether you like that or not. It isn't "diverse" or "inclusive" - it's bunch of people who are morons or brilliant, funny or evil, kind or vindictive, helpful or antagonistic. Their backgrounds or skin tone aren't important.

    That's a lesson.
    "Alexa, slaughter the fatted calf."

  12. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillygirl View Post
    Part of why teens aren't working is because playing a sport in high school has become a nearly full time job. The level of time commitment is so intense that there is no time for a part time job on top of it. My nieces cheerleaders schedule was ridiculous, even though she gave up all Stars and joined the high school team instead in order to make the time commitment less demanding.
    Same is true with band. Takes an extraordinary amount of time, all year around.

  13. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Marva View Post
    Same is true with band. Takes an extraordinary amount of time, all year around.
    I was in band from 6th grade thorough State orchestra. The only part that takes time is practice but you really do have to do a lot of that if you want a chair or solo.
    Last edited by Gingersnap; Thursday, May 2nd, 2019 at 10:27 PM.
    "Alexa, slaughter the fatted calf."

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