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Thread: When Harvard Stumbles

  1. #11
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    I love having criminal defense attorneys as opposing counsel. The good ones do not take on the emotions of their clients; they don't necessarily believe their clients; and are more apt to be professional in their dealings with me than many family law attorneys. They consider it a win if their client doesn't go to jail for too long and they are used to controlling the case and therefore the clients.

    Many of my colleagues that I am the friendliest with are criminal defense attorneys. They have represented some very high profile criminals, both white collar and the general scum murderers and rapists. They don't do it because they believe their clients to be innocent (for the most part); they do it because they believe the defendants deserve good representation; it pays well; and courtroom litigation is something that some of us crave...kind of adrenaline junkies if you will, at least in that area.
    Not where I breathe, but where I love, I live...
    Robert Southwell, S.J.

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillygirl View Post
    I love having criminal defense attorneys as opposing counsel. The good ones do not take on the emotions of their clients; they don't necessarily believe their clients; and are more apt to be professional in their dealings with me than many family law attorneys. They consider it a win if their client doesn't go to jail for too long and they are used to controlling the case and therefore the clients.

    Many of my colleagues that I am the friendliest with are criminal defense attorneys. They have represented some very high profile criminals, both white collar and the general scum murderers and rapists. They don't do it because they believe their clients to be innocent (for the most part); they do it because they believe the defendants deserve good representation; it pays well; and courtroom litigation is something that some of us crave...kind of adrenaline junkies if you will, at least in that area.
    Maybe it's a sorry state of affairs, but attorneys who wholeheartedly believe their clients tend to badly gum up the works, because there is a basic principle at work that they fail to understand: Clients. Lie. For that matter, people lie. To each other, to their attorneys, and to themselves, sometimes not even consciously. If an attorney believes the other side is entirely wrong and his/her client is entirely right, there's no room for negotiation. If there's no room for negotiation, someone's going to lose, and it may be both parties.

    An attorney who is too emotionally invested in the case is not giving the client top-flight representation.
    No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. This offer VALID in 35 34 33 32 31 26 20 17 15 14 13 ALL 50 states.

    The new 13 original states to stand up for freedom: CA, CT, IA, MA, DE, MN, NH, NY, RI, VT, ME, MD, NJ (plus DC).

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  5. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celeste Chalfonte View Post
    Maybe it's a sorry state of affairs, but attorneys who wholeheartedly believe their clients tend to badly gum up the works, because there is a basic principle at work that they fail to understand: Clients. Lie. For that matter, people lie. To each other, to their attorneys, and to themselves, sometimes not even consciously. If an attorney believes the other side is entirely wrong and his/her client is entirely right, there's no room for negotiation. If there's no room for negotiation, someone's going to lose, and it may be both parties.

    An attorney who is too emotionally invested in the case is not giving the client top-flight representation.
    Yep. All of this. Criminal defense attorneys, however, know this best.
    Not where I breathe, but where I love, I live...
    Robert Southwell, S.J.

  6. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celeste Chalfonte View Post
    Criminal defense lawyers do not have to like, approve of, or even believe their clients. Their duty to our government of laws is to ensure that the accused gets a competent defense, and to make the government prove every element of its case. If only innocent, righteous people were entitled to a zealous defense, that right would have no more meaning than if only popular speech and the state religion were protected by the First Amendment.
    This is it.

    The purpose of criminal defense is to ensure that the prosecution plays according to the rules even (or especially) if the accused is caught red-handed.

    There was a reason why the Allies conducted the Nuremberg trials after WWII in the way they did. I'm sure all the Americans involved and most of the German defense attorneys would have cheered to see every one of the defendants shot through the head.

    But that's no different from what they did day in and day out.

    It doesn't matter how odious the crime, the law is our only defense against chaos.

    Weinstein's alleged crimes are nothing compared to that. He deserves the best defense his money can buy. What's worse morally? Defending some guy who had a casting couch and used it relentlessly or defending some guy who did a drive-by and killed 2 people while paralyzing a little kid asleep in bed?

    Harvard students and administrators should be able to parse that one out.
    "Alexa, slaughter the fatted calf."

  7. #15
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    The source of the complaints against them (the first African-American faculty deans).
    https://www.change.org/p/harvard-adm...-dean-sullivan
    Not where I breathe, but where I love, I live...
    Robert Southwell, S.J.

  8. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillygirl View Post
    The source of the complaints against them (the first African-American faculty deans).
    https://www.change.org/p/harvard-adm...-dean-sullivan
    Wow. The petition and the comments.
    May we raise children who love the unloved things - the dandelion, the worm, the spiderlings.
    Children who sense the rose needs the thorn and run into rainswept days the same way they turn towards the sun...
    And when they're grown and someone has to speak for those who have no voice,
    may they draw upon that wilder bond, those days of tending tender things and be the one.

  9. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michele View Post
    Wow. The petition and the comments.
    They have been brainwashed by our educational system. Its happening a lot.

    Mark
    Race Card: A tool of the intellectually weak and lazy when they cannot counter a logical argument or factual data.

    "Liberals have to stop insisting that the world is what they want it to be instead of the way it is." - Bill Maher

    Political correctness is ideological fascism. It’s the antithesis of freedom. Dr. Piper

    Gender is not a "Social Construct", it is an outgrowth of biological reality.

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  11. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillygirl View Post
    The source of the complaints against them (the first African-American faculty deans).
    https://www.change.org/p/harvard-adm...-dean-sullivan
    I was inspired to start my own petition. Please go sign it...before they take it down.

    ETA: It would really be fun if I could get more signatures than the original, which didn't really do that well.
    Last edited by Celeste Chalfonte; Sunday, June 16th, 2019 at 4:31 PM.
    No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. This offer VALID in 35 34 33 32 31 26 20 17 15 14 13 ALL 50 states.

    The new 13 original states to stand up for freedom: CA, CT, IA, MA, DE, MN, NH, NY, RI, VT, ME, MD, NJ (plus DC).

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  13. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celeste Chalfonte View Post
    I was inspired to start my own petition. Please go sign it...before they take it down.

    ETA: It would really be fun if I could get more signatures than the original, which didn't really do that well.
    Done!
    Not where I breathe, but where I love, I live...
    Robert Southwell, S.J.

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  15. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celeste Chalfonte View Post
    I was inspired to start my own petition. Please go sign it...before they take it down.

    ETA: It would really be fun if I could get more signatures than the original, which didn't really do that well.
    Well done, Celeste.
    May we raise children who love the unloved things - the dandelion, the worm, the spiderlings.
    Children who sense the rose needs the thorn and run into rainswept days the same way they turn towards the sun...
    And when they're grown and someone has to speak for those who have no voice,
    may they draw upon that wilder bond, those days of tending tender things and be the one.

  16. Thanks Celeste Chalfonte thanked for this post

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