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Thread: $15/hr is starvation wages

  1. #1
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    $15/hr is starvation wages

    Fight for fifteen! Oh, wait....

    That didn't take long.

    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez slams Amazon's Jeff Bezos for becoming a billionaire while paying his staff 'starvation wages' which leave them taking food stamps
    Amazon increased the minimum wage to $15 last November in response to criticism.
    More in the NY region. But never mind that.

    The relevant section starts at the 16 minute mark:



    A Social Justice Warrior's work is never done.
    "We have to stop demonizing people and realize the biggest terror threat in this country is white men, most of them radicalized to the right, and we have to start doing something about them." —CNN's Don Lemon, showing how to stop demonizing people.

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    Sorry, donna wanna liten to dat wimen for even one, much less 15.

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    Well, this is what happens when people don't understand economic principles. It's all about the incentives. Human beings are very predictable when it comes to market forces either as consumers or producers.

    Most employers are unwilling to pay more for labor than labor adds in value to create profit. This is somewhat suspended in administrative work since the "value" is often vague or unmeasurable if it exists at all but in most jobs this is true.

    Labor always works to maximize its own profit, obviously.

    There is no such thing as a "living wage" or a minimum wage in reality. Many people (including a lot of politicians) believe that business exists to create jobs and jobs of a certain value to workers. This is completely wrong. Jobs are side effect of business. A happy side effect considering most of us aren't subsistence farmers or hunter-gatherers but a side effect. If Amazon or Betty's Bake Shop could produce what they produce and make the same or better profits with robots or hamsters or ghosts, they'd do it.

    In societies more complex than hunting/farming kinship groups, labor and investment sort out a balance. The economic history of Western Europe is full of this stuff if anybody bothered to read about life before 1800 or 1650 or 900 A.D.

    Currently, governments set minimum wages but that wage says nothing about labor value or about income inequality. Nor can it since it's an largely arbitrary number based on housing costs, food prices, and other markers and it assumes that any minimum wage worker will remain at that wage for the worker's entire life (which is mostly ridiculous).

    Income inequality has a large number of inputs, some of which might as well be caused by voodoo as anything else. Location, I.Q., personality, bad habits, long range goals, inexplicable choices, government interference or government largess, bad parenting, luck, and religion/culture are a tiny fraction of the causes.

    If the U.S. government gave every man, woman, and child one million bucks tomorrow morning, everybody would essentially be back where they started a month later except the dumb people would be slightly worse off since the price of everything would temporarily be a lot higher.

    Human nature, she's a bitch.
    "Alexa, slaughter the fatted calf."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gingersnap View Post
    Well, this is what happens when people don't understand economic principles. It's all about the incentives. Human beings are very predictable when it comes to market forces either as consumers or producers.

    Most employers are unwilling to pay more for labor than labor adds in value to create profit. This is somewhat suspended in administrative work since the "value" is often vague or unmeasurable if it exists at all but in most jobs this is true.

    Labor always works to maximize its own profit, obviously.

    There is no such thing as a "living wage" or a minimum wage in reality. Many people (including a lot of politicians) believe that business exists to create jobs and jobs of a certain value to workers. This is completely wrong. Jobs are side effect of business. A happy side effect considering most of us aren't subsistence farmers or hunter-gatherers but a side effect. If Amazon or Betty's Bake Shop could produce what they produce and make the same or better profits with robots or hamsters or ghosts, they'd do it.

    In societies more complex than hunting/farming kinship groups, labor and investment sort out a balance. The economic history of Western Europe is full of this stuff if anybody bothered to read about life before 1800 or 1650 or 900 A.D.

    Currently, governments set minimum wages but that wage says nothing about labor value or about income inequality. Nor can it since it's an largely arbitrary number based on housing costs, food prices, and other markers and it assumes that any minimum wage worker will remain at that wage for the worker's entire life (which is mostly ridiculous).

    Income inequality has a large number of inputs, some of which might as well be caused by voodoo as anything else. Location, I.Q., personality, bad habits, long range goals, inexplicable choices, government interference or government largess, bad parenting, luck, and religion/culture are a tiny fraction of the causes.

    If the U.S. government gave every man, woman, and child one million bucks tomorrow morning, everybody would essentially be back where they started a month later except the dumb people would be slightly worse off since the price of everything would temporarily be a lot higher.

    Human nature, she's a bitch.
    She graduated near the top of her class at Boston University, with a double major in economics and international relations.


    I don't think she's entirely careless. She carefully allowed billionaires to exist (I paraphrase), "If Bezos pays his employees a living wage, gives them health insurance, childcarefreecollegefreehousing freedomfromfoodinsecurity and more, and he has a billion left over, that's OK."

    Good thing, since so many fat cats are Democrat supporters.
    "We have to stop demonizing people and realize the biggest terror threat in this country is white men, most of them radicalized to the right, and we have to start doing something about them." —CNN's Don Lemon, showing how to stop demonizing people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Newman View Post
    She graduated near the top of her class at Boston University, with a double major in economics and international relations.


    I don't think she's entirely careless. She carefully allowed billionaires to exist (I paraphrase), "If Bezos pays his employees a living wage, gives them health insurance, childcarefreecollegefreehousing freedomfromfoodinsecurity and more, and he has a billion left over, that's OK."

    Good thing, since so many fat cats are Democrat supporters.
    Well, we don't know what she learned regardless of the course title or how she learned it. The Soviets pumped out econ grads too but their economic ideas were smoke and mirrors.
    "Alexa, slaughter the fatted calf."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Newman View Post
    She graduated near the top of her class at Boston University, with a double major in economics and international relations.

    And all she could get was a job tending bar?
    If it pays, it stays

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gingersnap View Post
    Well, we don't know what she learned regardless of the course title or how she learned it. The Soviets pumped out econ grads too but their economic ideas were smoke and mirrors.
    She's totally invested in class conflict crap. Had Amazon moved into New York it was expected to add 25,000 jobs with an average pay around $150,000.

    She knows that. There's no way she can sling that "starvation wages" bullshit around unless she's totally committed to ideology over reality.
    "We have to stop demonizing people and realize the biggest terror threat in this country is white men, most of them radicalized to the right, and we have to start doing something about them." —CNN's Don Lemon, showing how to stop demonizing people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Newman View Post
    She's totally invested in class conflict crap. Had Amazon moved into New York it was expected to add 25,000 jobs with an average pay around $150,000.

    She knows that. There's no way she can sling that "starvation wages" bullshit around unless she's totally committed to ideology over reality.
    Some rich frat boy must have dissed her publically in a class...………………...

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    I remember going to an off, off, off Broadway, radical left play eons ago. At one point that ranter on stage was flogging GM (gives you an idea how long ago it was; minimum wage was probably $1.40 or so). He was scoffing at the union rep's suggestion that negotiations had gone well for the workers, and wages would go up. I'm pretty sure my recollection is close to ver batim. "10... 15... I don't care if you get $25 an hour! GM is still gonna make $15 hundred dollars a car, 'cause they are the owners and the workers got nothing."

    It's not about reason, it's about emotion—envy and resentment—and power.
    "We have to stop demonizing people and realize the biggest terror threat in this country is white men, most of them radicalized to the right, and we have to start doing something about them." —CNN's Don Lemon, showing how to stop demonizing people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Newman View Post
    I remember going to an off, off, off Broadway, radical left play eons ago. At one point that ranter on stage was flogging GM (gives you an idea how long ago it was; minimum wage was probably $1.40 or so). He was scoffing at the union rep's suggestion that negotiations had gone well for the workers, and wages would go up. I'm pretty sure my recollection is close to ver batim. "10... 15... I don't care if you get $25 an hour! GM is still gonna make $15 hundred dollars a car, 'cause they are the owners and the workers got nothing."

    It's not about reason, it's about emotion—envy and resentment—and power.
    I think this is about right. I've had very good times and very bad times but I've never asked myself why so-and-so has it so easy (from my perspective). I've always thought my deal was largely my deal. You play the hand you're dealt however absurd it may appear.

    Sure, there are a lot of wild cards involving luck, personality, persistence, laziness, location, friends/relatives, trauma, interests, and not actually being killed by a drunk driver but everybody has those things. They play out at every income/educational level in similar ways.

    It's all perception for the most part in this country at this time. Rich(er) people can't imagine sending a kid to a State school or eating ramen or day-old bread when things are tight. Poor people believe that Insta is reality - get enough money and your life is an endless hotbed of sheer pleasure.

    Neither is true.
    "Alexa, slaughter the fatted calf."

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