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Thread: 1619 Project

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    1619 Project

    Is anyone here pressing their nose up against this "flood the zone" campaign led by the NY Times?

    1619 and the cult of American innocence
    What the conservative critics of the New York Times’s 1619 Project miss.


    The agony of guilt?

    Seems to me this is simply the 2020 campaign by the left, trying to force everyone else to prove they aren't racist. And of course, we already know they are.
    “The interesting thing about the Green New Deal is it wasn’t originally a climate thing at all.... We really think of it as a how-do-you-change-the-entire-economy thing.” —Saikat Chakrabarti, then AOC's Chief of Staff, explaining the Green New Deal for the hard of hearing.

    "We have to stop demonizing people and realize the biggest terror threat in this country is white men, most of them radicalized to the right, and we have to start doing something about them." —CNN's Don Lemon, showing how to stop demonizing people.

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    The firmest case for the America-Was-Built-On-The-Backs-Of-Slaves theory would be economic evidence which we should (and do) have in abundance. Very careful records were kept of expenses and income involving plantations and large farming operations. The same careful record keeping extended to private homes and businesses.

    We can compare the productivity and economic impact of slave-owning regions versus regions that didn't depend on slave labor as well as their contributions to overall GDP and exports. Cotton is sometimes used as a proxy for this kind of thing.

    The actual evidence just isn't there when the data is broken down for deep analysis. With the possible short-lived importance of indigo production and export, slave labor was not the major factor in American business, industry, or overall agricultural production or even one of the major factors. It was locally important for short periods of time in specific locations. Nobody in Ohio or New York or Illinois was economically dependent on American slavery to grow, produce, craft, transport, or sell products.

    Had slavery never existed in the U.S. (arguably a much better path), the concept of the United States, it's expansion, and it's political and social fabric would have still happened - perhaps even faster without the fallout from the Civil War. The White House would have been built, railways would still have been constructed and operated, cotton would have been picked, spun, and woven into cloth, something else just as productive or more so would have taken the place of the plantation system (as it did in many other places), servants would still have made beds and emptied slop buckets, share cropping would still have existed, and on and on.

    Whites and Hispanics did the same tasks that slaves performed. All that work would still have happened. You can argue that America would have lost out on specific contributions made by slaves and their descendants in terms of cultural contributions and that would be true but somehow other countries have managed to get along without that input just as the vast majority of Americans lead fulfilling lives without knowing much more about Japanese culture than it's impact on California rolls.

    The NYT isn't advancing race relations by this effort. Separating people out by identity politics and holding some identities up while proclaiming others to be inferior is no different at all from the old school racism the NYT would claim to condemn.
    "Alexa, slaughter the fatted calf."

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    She illustrates how being honest about the history of racial oppression works to reveal the ways in which black Americans have, despite all the barriers placed in front of them, become the guardians of America’s highest ideals of equality and individual liberty.
    That's why blacks are killing each off? That's why black cities with black schools and black mayors are horrid places?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gingersnap View Post
    The NYT isn't advancing race relations by this effort. Separating people out by identity politics and holding some identities up while proclaiming others to be inferior is no different at all from the old school racism the NYT would claim to condemn.
    Their intention is quite different than improving race relations, if that's what you mean by "advancing."

    I think we're seeing a new model of the assault from the left on America: First accuse, force the accused to prove a negative, inflict what damage you can, then move to the next accusation.
    “The interesting thing about the Green New Deal is it wasn’t originally a climate thing at all.... We really think of it as a how-do-you-change-the-entire-economy thing.” —Saikat Chakrabarti, then AOC's Chief of Staff, explaining the Green New Deal for the hard of hearing.

    "We have to stop demonizing people and realize the biggest terror threat in this country is white men, most of them radicalized to the right, and we have to start doing something about them." —CNN's Don Lemon, showing how to stop demonizing people.

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    Information is bad, y'all. People who compile information and write it up are bad people with bad intentions. People who check facts are even worse.

    On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
    -H. L. Mencken

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gingersnap View Post
    The actual evidence just isn't there when the data is broken down for deep analysis. With the possible short-lived importance of indigo production and export, slave labor was not the major factor in American business, industry, or overall agricultural production or even one of the major factors.
    That is such an absurd assertion, I don't even know where to begin. I have read the argument that the modern wealth of Europe was not entirely, or even primarily, created on the backs of the slaves in the New World but every "deep analysis" I have investigated has shown rather specifically how slave labor crossed your "major factor" threshold easily with regards to economic activity in the United States prior to the Civil War.

    Do you have books you can point to that back up your argument?
    “Totalitarianism in power invariably replaces all first-rate talents, regardless of their sympathies, with those crackpots and fools whose lack of intelligence and creativity is still the best guarantee of their loyalty.”

    ~ Hannah Arendt

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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm dePlume View Post
    Information is bad, y'all. People who compile information and write it up are bad people with bad intentions.

    No. They are just repeating the propagandists reaction to the project.

    Here's the theme. I've seen it repeated in the rightwing media bubble:


    Quote Originally Posted by Gingersnap View Post
    The NYT isn't advancing race relations by this effort. Separating people out by identity politics and holding some identities up while proclaiming others to be inferior is no different at all from the old school racism the NYT would claim to condemn.
    Quote Originally Posted by Newman View Post
    Their intention is quite different than improving race relations, if that's what you mean by "advancing."

    I think we're seeing a new model of the assault from the left on America: First accuse, force the accused to prove a negative, inflict what damage you can, then move to the next accusation.
    “Totalitarianism in power invariably replaces all first-rate talents, regardless of their sympathies, with those crackpots and fools whose lack of intelligence and creativity is still the best guarantee of their loyalty.”

    ~ Hannah Arendt

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    Newman: "Seems to me this is simply the 2020 campaign by the left, trying to force everyone else to prove they aren't racist. And of course, we already know they are."

    Yes and now the NYT has joined their candidates:

    "The day Bob Mueller walked off that witness stand, two things happened," Baquet continued. "Our readers who want Donald Trump to go away suddenly thought, 'Holy shit, Bob Mueller is not going to do it.' And Donald Trump got a little emboldened politically, I think. Because, you know, for obvious reasons. And I think that the story changed. A lot of the stuff we're talking about started to emerge like six or seven weeks ago. We're a little tiny bit flat-footed. I mean, that's what happens when a story looks a certain way for two years. Right?"
    "We built our newsroom to cover one story, and we did it truly well," Baquet said. "Now we have to regroup, and shift resources and emphasis to take on a different story."
    Now, Baquet continued, "I think that we've got to change." The Times must "write more deeply about the country, race, and other divisions."
    May we raise children who love the unloved things - the dandelion, the worm, the spiderlings.
    Children who sense the rose needs the thorn and run into rainswept days the same way they turn towards the sun...
    And when they're grown and someone has to speak for those who have no voice,
    may they draw upon that wilder bond, those days of tending tender things and be the one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Jingo View Post
    That is such an absurd assertion, I don't even know where to begin. I have read the argument that the modern wealth of Europe was not entirely, or even primarily, created on the backs of the slaves in the New World but every "deep analysis" I have investigated has shown rather specifically how slave labor crossed your "major factor" threshold easily with regards to economic activity in the United States prior to the Civil War.

    Do you have books you can point to that back up your argument?
    For as far back as we can see, and across all the inhabited continents, the principle economic tool to acquire wealth and improve one's standard of living has been conquest, which includes enslavement of various types. I guess there are isolated societies, usually small, that seem to have no interest in improvement. Have any of those become great civilizations? I'm not certain, but I doubt it.

    Any civilization based on conquest is rooted in violence.

    Today's assignment, boys and girls, is to trash America.
    “The interesting thing about the Green New Deal is it wasn’t originally a climate thing at all.... We really think of it as a how-do-you-change-the-entire-economy thing.” —Saikat Chakrabarti, then AOC's Chief of Staff, explaining the Green New Deal for the hard of hearing.

    "We have to stop demonizing people and realize the biggest terror threat in this country is white men, most of them radicalized to the right, and we have to start doing something about them." —CNN's Don Lemon, showing how to stop demonizing people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Newman View Post
    For as far back as we can see, and across all the inhabited continents, the principle economic tool to acquire wealth and improve one's standard of living has been conquest, which includes enslavement of various types. I guess there are isolated societies, usually small, that seem to have no interest in improvement. Have any of those become great civilizations? I'm not certain, but I doubt it.

    Any civilization based on conquest is rooted in violence.
    Well. I guess we aren’t exceptional after all.
    “Totalitarianism in power invariably replaces all first-rate talents, regardless of their sympathies, with those crackpots and fools whose lack of intelligence and creativity is still the best guarantee of their loyalty.”

    ~ Hannah Arendt

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