Page 3 of 10 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 96

Thread: 1619 Project

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Tuesday, October 1st, 2013
    Last Online
    Today @ 5:15 AM
    Posts
    10,513
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    I like minutia.

    The slaves presumably produced more than they consumed or otherwise they would have had no monetary value. The paid agricultural and domestic workers would presumably produce more than they were paid. Neither group would be likely to have anything left over at the end of a lifetime.

    THeoretically a slave could save his allowance and income from side jobs ( if any) and purchase his freedom. The white field hand had the freedom to walk away from the job but he also had the freedom to starve. When freed slaves became a burden to society it was at the cost of their former owner.

    How do we count all these nickels and dimes?
    Blame Republicans - even when they were Democrats or something. But don't blame people who still believe that skin color automatically makes them unable to think or solve their own problems. Denying that skin color alone has this effect is racist.

    And so is not wanting more government intrusion into healthcare.
    "What truly matters is not which party controls our government, but whether our government is controlled by the people. January 20th 2017, will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again. The forgotten men and women of our country will be forgotten no longer."

    link

    Time will tell.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Friday, November 1st, 2013
    Last Online
    Today @ 2:38 PM
    Posts
    9,383
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Jingo View Post
    Well. I 0guess we aren’t exceptional after all.
    I take your use of the word "exceptional" to be in its ordinary sense, as Barack Obama used it, just ever so tinged with sarcasm aimed at the idea of American Exceptionalism, again as modeled by Obama.

    In the quotidian sense you are right. What we are, instead, is exceptionally lucky. My touchstone for this notion is Jared Diamond's book Guns, Germs, and Steel. Between our protective moats, called oceans, our natural resources, and the fact that before Europeans came to settle what is now North America, smallpox introduced by the Spanish (loosed swine, probably) wiped out millions of Native Americans, allowing game to flourish, flora to flourish, and killing off legions of warriors who might have caused problems. And so on.

    In my opinion the great tragedy that has dogged this nation is not slavery, but that slavery became associated with skin color to such a degree. Slavery was everywhere and afflicted people of every shade and ethnicity. In America the steamy climate of the agricultural South killed off the indentured Europeans, and perhaps surprisingly, Native Americans fared little better.

    Bartolomé de las Casas, the 16th century friar and chronicler of early colonization of the continent, recommended sparing Native American slaves and using Africans instead. Africans endured better.

    I believe the reason is West Africans had superior immunity to mosquito-borne illnesses, malaria particularly. They survived here and thus were a better investment. Paying to bring an indentured English lad over, who'd die within a season, was a waste of coin, for example. The influence of malaria through history is well studied; my touchstone here is the Charles Mann book 1493.

    Thus West Africans were condemned to involuntary servitude because of a genetic advantage they had.

    Anyway, because enslavement became wrapped around color, and because prejudices and myths inevitably emerged to justify enslavement, racism has become the bęte noire of our country.

    Y'know, we've had whole industries whose interest it was to further conditions that preserved disparities of circumstances according to skin color. From slavery itself through Jim Crow and the KKK, Dinesh D'Souza among others lay this bane squarely at the feet of the Democratic Party.

    I think the 1619 Project continues that tradition, to the painful disadvantage of African Americans for yet another generation.
    Last edited by Newman; Thursday, August 22nd, 2019 at 10:54 PM.
    “The interesting thing about the Green New Deal is it wasn’t originally a climate thing at all.... We really think of it as a how-do-you-change-the-entire-economy thing.” —Saikat Chakrabarti, then AOC's Chief of Staff, explaining the Green New Deal for the hard of hearing.

    "We have to stop demonizing people and realize the biggest terror threat in this country is white men, most of them radicalized to the right, and we have to start doing something about them." —CNN's Don Lemon, showing how to stop demonizing people.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Wednesday, June 17th, 2015
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 3:10 PM
    Posts
    10,759
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    How do we count all these nickels and dimes?
    In today's terms it's called entitlement welfare.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Wednesday, October 2nd, 2013
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    12,786
    Post Thanks / Like
    Why 1619?
    Not where I breathe, but where I love, I live...
    Robert Southwell, S.J.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Wednesday, October 2nd, 2013
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    13,685
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by phillygirl View Post
    Why 1619?
    It is the first historically verifiable instance of African slaves on territory that is now the United States.
    “Totalitarianism in power invariably replaces all first-rate talents, regardless of their sympathies, with those crackpots and fools whose lack of intelligence and creativity is still the best guarantee of their loyalty.”

    ~ Hannah Arendt

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Wednesday, October 2nd, 2013
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    12,786
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Jingo View Post
    It is the first historically verifiable instance of African slaves on territory that is now the United States.
    I thought the 1526 settlement of San Miguel de Gualdape (now known as Georgia) and subsequent slave uprising was historically verifiable.

    It seems to me that this "project" is talking about British (English?) slave trade history and ignoring the rest of it that was around since at least the 1500's?
    Not where I breathe, but where I love, I live...
    Robert Southwell, S.J.

  7. Likes Tom Servo, Newman, scott liked this post
  8. #27
    Join Date
    Wednesday, October 2nd, 2013
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    13,685
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by phillygirl View Post
    I thought the 1526 settlement of San Miguel de Gualdape (now known as Georgia) and subsequent slave uprising was historically verifiable.
    I am not aware of any other documentation on how and when African slaves arrived. I am not arguing that it doesn't exist, and I am aware that African slaves were on the North American continent prior to 1619, just that their arrivals are lost to history.

    It seems to me that this "project" is talking about British (English?) slave trade history and ignoring the rest of it that was around since at least the 1500's?
    I suppose the United States' origins are more closely tied to the English than other nations of the time. It might just be as simple as a nice round "400" years. I would have to read the project to find out if they explain it. I have only read one of the essays so far.
    “Totalitarianism in power invariably replaces all first-rate talents, regardless of their sympathies, with those crackpots and fools whose lack of intelligence and creativity is still the best guarantee of their loyalty.”

    ~ Hannah Arendt

  9. #28
    Join Date
    Wednesday, October 2nd, 2013
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    12,786
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Jingo View Post
    I am not aware of any other documentation on how and when African slaves arrived. I am not arguing that it doesn't exist, and I am aware that African slaves were on the North American continent prior to 1619, just that their arrivals are lost to history.



    I suppose the United States' origins are more closely tied to the English than other nations of the time. It might just be as simple as a nice round "400" years. I would have to read the project to find out if they explain it. I have only read one of the essays so far.
    I think that is somewhat of a spin. Louisiana, Florida, Texas, California, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, Wyoming, and Alaska might beg to differ. Yes, we tend to think of ourselves as merely formerly British, but the French and Spanish had some pretty big influences as well.
    Not where I breathe, but where I love, I live...
    Robert Southwell, S.J.

  10. #29
    Join Date
    Wednesday, October 2nd, 2013
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    13,685
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by phillygirl View Post
    I think that is somewhat of a spin. Louisiana, Florida, Texas, California, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, Wyoming, and Alaska might beg to differ. Yes, we tend to think of ourselves as merely formerly British, but the French and Spanish had some pretty big influences as well.
    Good point. I certainly fall into the trap.

    Maybe it is like 1492. Just an agreed upon date.
    “Totalitarianism in power invariably replaces all first-rate talents, regardless of their sympathies, with those crackpots and fools whose lack of intelligence and creativity is still the best guarantee of their loyalty.”

    ~ Hannah Arendt

  11. #30
    Join Date
    Wednesday, October 2nd, 2013
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    12,786
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Jingo View Post
    Good point. I certainly fall into the trap.

    Maybe it is like 1492. Just an agreed upon date.
    I think it's strange, honestly. There some kind of push to "rethink" America in terms of when the alleged first "slave ship" came here (which wasn't actually set for here, but did end up here). I don't think that's proper. It's not proper to pretend that people of color, women, homosexuals, etc. had nothing to do with the major milestones of our country. Likewise, it's stupid to think that our country simply "began" when the first slave ship (albeit, not the first slaves) landed here, or that it only began when the first African American slaves got here.

    While this might have been a fine exercise by one teacher for something different, the push to make this a national issue is odd. There is something behind it that isn't merely altruistic. I'm sure you realize that.
    Not where I breathe, but where I love, I live...
    Robert Southwell, S.J.

  12. Likes Michele, 80zephyr, scott liked this post

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •