Page 2 of 10 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 96

Thread: 1619 Project

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Friday, November 1st, 2013
    Last Online
    Today @ 9:23 PM
    Posts
    11,256
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Norm dePlume View Post
    Information is bad, y'all. People who compile information and write it up are bad people with bad intentions. People who check facts are even worse.
    Bad information is even badder, yo.

    This is the quintessential "Keep Hate Alive" project. I suspect it will foul the air for a while, but its lasting malevolence will be effected by working this crimped view in our public school curriculum.

    A nearby thread highlights a trio of public school teacher bobbleheads who traveled to Venezuela and returned singing the praises of socialism.

    Unfortunately such dunderheads are legion in the ranks of our school staffs, and it's only a matter of time (minutes, really) before 1619 Project agitprop seeps into their classrooms.

    I wouldn't be surprised if making a curriculum and lesson plans is already in progress.
    “We hold these truths to be self evident. All men and women created by the, you know, you know, the thing.” —Joe Biden, explaining the Creator.

    "I was not elected to do small things or shy away from big problems.” —Donald Trump.

    "The way I see it, there's always, c'mon, there's always money. It's there." —Elizabeth Warren, explaining socialism.

    “The interesting thing about the Green New Deal is it wasn’t originally a climate thing at all.... We really think of it as a how-do-you-change-the-entire-economy thing.” —Saikat Chakrabarti, then AOC's Chief of Staff.

    "We have to stop demonizing people and realize the biggest terror threat in this country is white men, most of them radicalized to the right, and we have to start doing something about them." —CNN's Don Lemon, showing how to stop demonizing people.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Tuesday, October 22nd, 2013
    Last Online
    Friday, March 6th, 2020 @ 8:26 PM
    Posts
    14,904
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Newman View Post
    Bad information is even badder, yo.
    You have to show the information is bad before you can make this argument. Casting aspersions about their motives doesn't cut it. Be honest.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Friday, November 1st, 2013
    Last Online
    Today @ 9:23 PM
    Posts
    11,256
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Newman View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised if making a curriculum and lesson plans is already in progress.
    The 1619 Project: Curricular Materials
    The 1619 Project, inaugurated with a special issue of The New York Times Magazine, challenges us to reframe U.S. history by marking the year when the first enslaved Africans arrived on Virginia soil as our nation's foundational date. Our accompanying curriculum provides reading guides, activities, and other resources to bring The 1619 Project into your classroom.
    That didn't take long.
    “We hold these truths to be self evident. All men and women created by the, you know, you know, the thing.” —Joe Biden, explaining the Creator.

    "I was not elected to do small things or shy away from big problems.” —Donald Trump.

    "The way I see it, there's always, c'mon, there's always money. It's there." —Elizabeth Warren, explaining socialism.

    “The interesting thing about the Green New Deal is it wasn’t originally a climate thing at all.... We really think of it as a how-do-you-change-the-entire-economy thing.” —Saikat Chakrabarti, then AOC's Chief of Staff.

    "We have to stop demonizing people and realize the biggest terror threat in this country is white men, most of them radicalized to the right, and we have to start doing something about them." —CNN's Don Lemon, showing how to stop demonizing people.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Tuesday, October 22nd, 2013
    Last Online
    Friday, March 6th, 2020 @ 8:26 PM
    Posts
    14,904
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Newman View Post
    Now show that it's "bad information", yo.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Friday, November 1st, 2013
    Last Online
    Today @ 9:23 PM
    Posts
    11,256
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Norm dePlume View Post
    You have to show the information is bad before you can make this argument. Casting aspersions about their motives doesn't cut it. Be honest.
    1619 is not our nation's "foundational date," whatever the cute and slippery word "foundational" is made to mean. "Our nation" is less slippery, and it wasn't founded in 1619.

    I'll start with that.
    “We hold these truths to be self evident. All men and women created by the, you know, you know, the thing.” —Joe Biden, explaining the Creator.

    "I was not elected to do small things or shy away from big problems.” —Donald Trump.

    "The way I see it, there's always, c'mon, there's always money. It's there." —Elizabeth Warren, explaining socialism.

    “The interesting thing about the Green New Deal is it wasn’t originally a climate thing at all.... We really think of it as a how-do-you-change-the-entire-economy thing.” —Saikat Chakrabarti, then AOC's Chief of Staff.

    "We have to stop demonizing people and realize the biggest terror threat in this country is white men, most of them radicalized to the right, and we have to start doing something about them." —CNN's Don Lemon, showing how to stop demonizing people.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Tuesday, October 22nd, 2013
    Last Online
    Friday, March 6th, 2020 @ 8:26 PM
    Posts
    14,904
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Newman View Post
    1619 is not our nation's "foundational date," whatever the cute and slippery word "foundational" is made to mean. "Nation" is less slippery, and it wasn't founded in 1619.

    I'll start with that.
    Yeah, so the original 13 colonies just sprang into existence out of nothing in 1776, I guess.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Tuesday, October 22nd, 2013
    Last Online
    Friday, March 6th, 2020 @ 8:26 PM
    Posts
    14,904
    Post Thanks / Like
    By the way, the word "foundational" shows up exactly twice in the entire project, never in the way that Newman made up.

    page 16:
    But it would be historically inac-
    curate to reduce the contributions
    of black people to the vast materi-
    al wealth created by our bondage.
    Black Americans have also been,
    and continue to be, foundational
    to the idea of American freedom.
    More than any other group in this
    country’s history, we have served,
    generation after generation, in an
    overlooked but vital role: It is we
    who have been the perfecters of
    this democracy.
    page 45:

    One hundred and fifty years
    after the freed people of the South
    fi rst petitioned the government for
    basic medical care, the United States
    remains the only high-income country
    in the world where such care is
    not guaranteed to every citizen. In
    the United States, racial health dispar-
    ities have proved as foundational
    as democracy itself. ‘‘There has never
    been any period in American history
    where the health of blacks was
    equal to that of whites,’’ Evelynn
    Hammonds, a historian of science at
    Harvard University, says. ‘‘Disparity
    is built into the system.’’ Medicare,
    Medicaid and the Aff ordable Care
    Act have helped shrink those dispar-
    ities. But no federal health policy
    yet has eradicated them

  8. Dislikes Michele disliked this post
  9. #18
    Join Date
    Friday, November 1st, 2013
    Last Online
    Today @ 9:23 PM
    Posts
    11,256
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Norm dePlume View Post
    By the way, the word "foundational" shows up exactly twice in the entire project, never in the way that Newman made up.

    page 16:


    page 45:
    Not so fast, Sherlock. I quoted the word from the curriculum source, which said the 1619 Project "challenges us to reframe U.S. history by marking the year when the first enslaved Africans arrived on Virginia soil as our nation's foundational date."

    Those enslaved Africans arrived at the Jamestown colony, which was founded earlier—1607 seems right. It was, I think, the first English-speaking colony to last (no one finds the "Lost Colony" at Roanoke "foundational") but not the first colony. Floridians will happily tall you that distinction belongs to St. Augustine about a century earlier.

    The 1619 Africans were not the first slaves here, even the first owned by Europeans. According to a source quoted in Wikipedia, of the 1619 slaves, "These approximately 20 individuals appear to have been treated as indentured servants, and a significant number of enslaved Africans earned freedom by fulfilling a work contract or for converting to Christianity." That is, they were not the "chattel slaves" of such later notoriety.

    OK. Not the first Africans (they accompanied the Spanish), not the first colony, not the first enslaved people, and for the record, not when our nation (the United States of America) was founded, or when our Constitution was ratified.

    So why is 1619 "foundational"?
    Last edited by Newman; Thursday, August 22nd, 2019 at 5:24 PM.
    “We hold these truths to be self evident. All men and women created by the, you know, you know, the thing.” —Joe Biden, explaining the Creator.

    "I was not elected to do small things or shy away from big problems.” —Donald Trump.

    "The way I see it, there's always, c'mon, there's always money. It's there." —Elizabeth Warren, explaining socialism.

    “The interesting thing about the Green New Deal is it wasn’t originally a climate thing at all.... We really think of it as a how-do-you-change-the-entire-economy thing.” —Saikat Chakrabarti, then AOC's Chief of Staff.

    "We have to stop demonizing people and realize the biggest terror threat in this country is white men, most of them radicalized to the right, and we have to start doing something about them." —CNN's Don Lemon, showing how to stop demonizing people.

  10. Likes Michele liked this post
  11. #19
    Join Date
    Tuesday, October 1st, 2013
    Last Online
    Today @ 8:47 PM
    Posts
    5,354
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Gingersnap View Post
    The firmest case for the America-Was-Built-On-The-Backs-Of-Slaves theory would be economic evidence which we should (and do) have in abundance. Very careful records were kept of expenses and income involving plantations and large farming operations. The same careful record keeping extended to private homes and businesses.

    We can compare the productivity and economic impact of slave-owning regions versus regions that didn't depend on slave labor as well as their contributions to overall GDP and exports. Cotton is sometimes used as a proxy for this kind of thing.

    The actual evidence just isn't there when the data is broken down for deep analysis. With the possible short-lived importance of indigo production and export, slave labor was not the major factor in American business, industry, or overall agricultural production or even one of the major factors. It was locally important for short periods of time in specific locations. Nobody in Ohio or New York or Illinois was economically dependent on American slavery to grow, produce, craft, transport, or sell products.

    Had slavery never existed in the U.S. (arguably a much better path), the concept of the United States, it's expansion, and it's political and social fabric would have still happened - perhaps even faster without the fallout from the Civil War. The White House would have been built, railways would still have been constructed and operated, cotton would have been picked, spun, and woven into cloth, something else just as productive or more so would have taken the place of the plantation system (as it did in many other places), servants would still have made beds and emptied slop buckets, share cropping would still have existed, and on and on.

    Whites and Hispanics did the same tasks that slaves performed. All that work would still have happened. You can argue that America would have lost out on specific contributions made by slaves and their descendants in terms of cultural contributions and that would be true but somehow other countries have managed to get along without that input just as the vast majority of Americans lead fulfilling lives without knowing much more about Japanese culture than it's impact on California rolls.

    The NYT isn't advancing race relations by this effort. Separating people out by identity politics and holding some identities up while proclaiming others to be inferior is no different at all from the old school racism the NYT would claim to condemn.
    I went looking for a fact and one source (can't recall which) said that cotton accounted for 70% of exports prior to the Great Wah.

    Here's a NYT article from 1861. I'm surprised that they had the ability to create such figures in 1860.

    https://www.nytimes.com/1861/10/02/a...ean-trade.html
    Last edited by Novaheart; Thursday, August 22nd, 2019 at 5:56 PM.
    You reached for the secret too soon, you cried for the moon.

  12. #20
    Join Date
    Tuesday, October 1st, 2013
    Last Online
    Today @ 8:47 PM
    Posts
    5,354
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Jingo View Post
    That is such an absurd assertion, I don't even know where to begin. I have read the argument that the modern wealth of Europe was not entirely, or even primarily, created on the backs of the slaves in the New World but every "deep analysis" I have investigated has shown rather specifically how slave labor crossed your "major factor" threshold easily with regards to economic activity in the United States prior to the Civil War.

    Do you have books you can point to that back up your argument?
    I like minutia.

    The slaves presumably produced more than they consumed or otherwise they would have had no monetary value. The paid agricultural and domestic workers would presumably produce more than they were paid. Neither group would be likely to have anything left over at the end of a lifetime.

    THeoretically a slave could save his allowance and income from side jobs ( if any) and purchase his freedom. The white field hand had the freedom to walk away from the job but he also had the freedom to starve. When freed slaves became a burden to society it was at the cost of their former owner.

    How do we count all these nickels and dimes?
    You reached for the secret too soon, you cried for the moon.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •