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Thread: Odessa gunman bought weapon through private sale: Sources

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by gary m View Post
    So since alcohol kills 3 times the number of people annually that guns kill, and a check isn't that onerous, would you agree that when you go to the local brewpub after work, the bartender should perform a background check with the FBI to make sure you do not have numerous alcohol related infractions, are not mentally incompetent, are not a convicted felon, are a legal US resident, do not abuse other drugs, do not smoke marijuana, are not presently under indictment for a misdemeanor that carries a term of over one year, have never been convicted of a domestic violence misdemeanor or felony, are not a fugitive from justice?

    Oh, and you can only buy the beverage of choice for yourself. Each person you are with must go through the same background check. Otherwise it is a straw purchase and the person you are buying the drink for may be one of the above prohibited persons, subjecting you to additional penalties.

    And when you leave there and go to the restaurant next door for dinner, the process begins anew when you order a glass of wine with dinner, and when you get back to your place with a few friends, you cannot offer them an adult beverage at all because you cannot do the background check as a private party and transferring alcohol without a background check is illegal.

    Not that onerous at all.
    If it saves one child's life....
    Generally alcohol isn't used to purposely kill other people; guns are. I have no objection to making certain the person is 1) not a convicted felon; 2) not currently the subject of a Protection from Abuse Order; and 3) not under any other legal impediment to own a gun.

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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillygirl View Post
    Generally alcohol isn't used to purposely kill other people; guns are. I have no objection to making certain the person is 1) not a convicted felon; 2) not currently the subject of a Protection from Abuse Order; and 3) not under any other legal impediment to own a gun.

    Why do you?
    And many times it is alcohol that leads to the use of the gun as well.

    My primary objections are:
    1) In 2017 (GAO numbers) of over 8 million NICS transactions, there where roughly 112,000 denials, 13,000 investigations and 12 (yes 12) federal prosecutions. Until the government gets serious about enforcing the existing system, I see the whole background check thing as little more than Mysterious Security Theatre 2019.

    2) I, you, and everyone on this board is in more daily danger of being killed, maimed or injured by the results of illegal alcohol use than of illegal gun use.

    3) Background checks are not an end, it is a beginning. If there was any indications that the passage of UBC would shut up the anti-gunners, I would be possibly inclined to agree with it. But even Stevie Wonder can see that the hoplophobes want guns banned, guns confiscated, guns illegal. UBC today, AWB tomorrow, leading towards the eventual banning of private party firearm ownership.

    4) Existing criminals will not give up their guns because they generally don't care about gun laws as it is. All this does is create another law for them to ignore and another hoop for the 99%+ of legal gun owners to play circus dog for the politicians. Who, I might add, are surrounded by armed security and will exempt themselves from whatever is passed.
    Get off the cross, we need the wood.

  3. #63
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    And to add on the alcohol thing...
    I can count the number of adult beverages I consume each year without even thinking much about it.
    So far this year I have had 3 beers, 4 shots of tequila and 1 of Jack Daniels Single Barrel.
    This is more than usual for me. Never more than 1 in any given day and the tequila and JD at home from my alcohol arsenal.
    A UBC for booze doesn't bother me a bit. Not onerous at all. I'll even pay a reasonable fee to have it done at a bar or restaurant. No skin off my nose.

    And on those odd occasions that I have to be in a plant for night shift, I certainly have more concern about the people on the freeway after midnight crashing into me while intoxicated than someone pulling out an AR15 and shooting me through my driver's side door or window.

    Of course, YMMV.
    Get off the cross, we need the wood.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by gary m View Post
    And to add on the alcohol thing...
    I can count the number of adult beverages I consume each year without even thinking much about it.
    So far this year I have had 3 beers, 4 shots of tequila and 1 of Jack Daniels Single Barrel.
    This is more than usual for me. Never more than 1 in any given day and the tequila and JD at home from my alcohol arsenal.
    A UBC for booze doesn't bother me a bit. Not onerous at all. I'll even pay a reasonable fee to have it done at a bar or restaurant. No skin off my nose.

    And on those odd occasions that I have to be in a plant for night shift, I certainly have more concern about the people on the freeway after midnight crashing into me while intoxicated than someone pulling out an AR15 and shooting me through my driver's side door or window.

    Of course, YMMV.
    You know what I do for a living. I've got a better than even chance that guns, alcohol, or both are the proximate cause of my eventual demise, despite the fact that I've had only slightly more to drink this year than you.
    Not where I breathe, but where I love, I live...
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by gary m View Post
    There are some exceptions for bequeaths, so if Frosty wants to leave Adam, me, or anyone else, the interstate transfer can occur. If the long guns being transferred are legal in the state of the recipient and they are not shipped. If shipped they must go through an FFL dealer and then the 4473 and BG check to pick them up. IOW, I cannot bequest my non-California compliant AR15 to Celeste as long as she resides in California. Don't think I could leave it to her to pick up in Nevada or Arizona as she is not a resident of that state and her state law (California) prohibits possession.
    Then there are exceptions for Curio and Relic (C&R) firearms such as my Yugoslavian m59/66 SKS. I can transfer that to almost anyone in almost any state where the firearm is legal. Again this leaves out California (barrel shroud, grenade launcher, and attached bayonet), New Jersey, most of New York and of course, Illinois.
    Even your summary makes my head swim. Here's the situation in my family, for your consideration. My father bought a "22 rifle" once upon a time in Massachusetts, moved and lived in North Carolina for 60 years. His widow there has the gun. When she passes it will go to either me in Florida or my brother in South Carolina. Any problems with that?

    I know people simply put the gun in the trunk of their car and say no more about it, or sell it and forget about it.

    What's the legal route?
    Celeste, Snaps, Newman and I get together in an Arizona FFL gun shop. They are offering an AR15 with a 30 round magazine. Celeste for the reasons listed above is SOL. Snaps can buy the gun, but not the magazine because Colorado has a magazine restriction law. Newman has to kick back in the hotel for a few days because Florida has a 3 day waiting period. I can put down the cash and walk right out since Michigan has no waiting period, magazine restrictions, or scary black rifle laws.
    I get the sweetest deal! I'm good at kicking back.

    This:
    Quote Originally Posted by gary m View Post
    3) Background checks are not an end, it is a beginning. If there was any indications that the passage of UBC would shut up the anti-gunners, I would be possibly inclined to agree with it. But even Stevie Wonder can see that the hoplophobes want guns banned, guns confiscated, guns illegal. UBC today, AWB tomorrow, leading towards the eventual banning of private party firearm ownership.
    Amen.
    “The interesting thing about the Green New Deal is it wasn’t originally a climate thing at all.... We really think of it as a how-do-you-change-the-entire-economy thing.” —Saikat Chakrabarti, then AOC's Chief of Staff, explaining the Green New Deal for the hard of hearing.

    "We have to stop demonizing people and realize the biggest terror threat in this country is white men, most of them radicalized to the right, and we have to start doing something about them." —CNN's Don Lemon, showing how to stop demonizing people.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by gary m View Post
    And many times it is alcohol that leads to the use of the gun as well.

    My primary objections are:
    1) In 2017 (GAO numbers) of over 8 million NICS transactions, there where roughly 112,000 denials, 13,000 investigations and 12 (yes 12) federal prosecutions. Until the government gets serious about enforcing the existing system, I see the whole background check thing as little more than Mysterious Security Theatre 2019.

    2) I, you, and everyone on this board is in more daily danger of being killed, maimed or injured by the results of illegal alcohol use than of illegal gun use.

    3) Background checks are not an end, it is a beginning. If there was any indications that the passage of UBC would shut up the anti-gunners, I would be possibly inclined to agree with it. But even Stevie Wonder can see that the hoplophobes want guns banned, guns confiscated, guns illegal. UBC today, AWB tomorrow, leading towards the eventual banning of private party firearm ownership.

    4) Existing criminals will not give up their guns because they generally don't care about gun laws as it is. All this does is create another law for them to ignore and another hoop for the 99%+ of legal gun owners to play circus dog for the politicians. Who, I might add, are surrounded by armed security and will exempt themselves from whatever is passed.


    Excellent post.

    Mark
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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillygirl View Post
    No, it's required.
    "Required" doesn't mean a boody blame thing when a car is stolen and driven to joyride...………...

  8. #68
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    More Guns, Less Crime, again:

    Four years after allowing universal ‘concealed carry’ law, Maine rated the safest state in the nation for crime
    Since 2015, residents of the state of Maine have been allowed to carry a concealed firearm without any special permit, and now the results are in: crime has fallen to the point where the state is now rated the safest in the nation from the threat of crime. The Maine Examiner reports:

    When Maine passed a “Constitutional Carry” law allowing Maine residents to carry a concealed firearm without any special permit in 2015, opponents of the law forecast a dangerous future for the state. They said the new law would hurt public safety and put Maine kids at risk.

    One state representative who opposed the bill went so far as to say it would give Mainers a reason to be afraid every time they went out in public or to work.

    Another state representative suggested the law would lead to violent criminals with recent arrests and convictions legally carrying handguns.

    They were wrong, as wrong as the San Francisco Board of Supervisors labeling the NRA a “terrorist organization.” And for the same reason, the notion that a physical object, not human beings, causes evil. The US News &World Report rankings of the safest states has named Maine as the safest state in the nation....
    Lifson goes on to mention Lott's book in his wrap up:
    As the Maine Examiner noted, second-ranking Vermont also has a constitutional carry law.

    Guns in the hands of honest citizens decrease crime. That is fact that has been statistically demonstrated by John Lott’s pathbreaking book, More Guns, Less Crime, a rick-solid statistical analysis showing that when states pass “shall issue” concealed carry laws, crime goes down.The San Francisco Board of Supervisors should take note.
    “The interesting thing about the Green New Deal is it wasn’t originally a climate thing at all.... We really think of it as a how-do-you-change-the-entire-economy thing.” —Saikat Chakrabarti, then AOC's Chief of Staff, explaining the Green New Deal for the hard of hearing.

    "We have to stop demonizing people and realize the biggest terror threat in this country is white men, most of them radicalized to the right, and we have to start doing something about them." —CNN's Don Lemon, showing how to stop demonizing people.

  9. #69
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    “Totalitarianism in power invariably replaces all first-rate talents, regardless of their sympathies, with those crackpots and fools whose lack of intelligence and creativity is still the best guarantee of their loyalty.”

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