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Thread: Greens: Save the planet, screw the people

  1. #1
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    Greens: Save the planet, screw the people

    A strong editorial in the Washington Examiner that spins off Bernie Sanders' awkward curtsy to eugenics and abortion. It also refreshed my recollection of the wonderful words in The Economist, "More poor people are eating meat around the world. That means they will live longer, healthier lives, but it is bad news for the environment.”



    The Washington Examiner:
    When an environmentalist says he or she wants to “save the planet” be sure to ask: “For whom?” Because often it seems like they're not doing it for people at all.

    The anti-people nature of environmentalism is sometimes just a matter of minor inconvenience, as when environmentalist policies force upon us flickering light bulbs, weak showers and toilets, and front-loading washing machines.

    Sometimes the imposition is greater, resulting in higher energy costs, the destruction of industries, and the degradation of human health.
    Emphasis added, below.
    Bernie Sanders, the socialist senator running for the Democratic Party’s presidential nomination, took anti-human environmentalism a step further on Wednesday night. A schoolteacher rose at CNN's climate town hall and brought up population control. Would Sanders have the “courage,” the teacher asked, to “make it a key feature of a plan to address climate catastrophe.”

    Sanders said yes, and then he went straight to abortion — “especially in poor countries around the world.” He cursed America’s Mexico City policy, which prohibits international family planning funds from funding abortions. Again, all in the name of saving the planet.

    Here, Sanders is dancing dangerously close to federally funded eugenics. To say that overpopulation is a problem, and then to immediately call for more funding of abortion in, say, Africa, is a rather startling position to take — maybe even "courageous," in the sense that it is risky to appear so callous an cruel.

    Sanders may have meant something else. He seemed to believe the Mexico City policy curtailed access to contraceptives. (It does not.) He spoke the language of autonomy. So maybe Sanders sees himself as just wanting to empower poor women to control their fertility. Even so, Western enthusiasm for reducing the number of African babies has always had racist and colonialist undertones.

    Even if we give Sanders this benefit of the doubt, the shadow of green misanthropy hangs over the exchange. Go back to the schoolteacher whose premises Sanders so enthusiastically embraced.

    “Human population growth has more than doubled in the past 50 years,” the teacher, Martha, began. That’s imprecise enough to be misleading. The rate of growth is actually declining, while the population has continued to grow, only more slowly. “The planet cannot sustain this growth,” she continued.
    "Imprecise" in that last sentence is a euphemism for "wrong." Some might call it a "lie."

    Human life is better today than it was 100 years ago, by far, and it had improved from 1000 years before that, and so on. What has improved mankind’s state? It wasn’t climate change. It wasn’t aliens. It was human ingenuity.

    In other words, humans are a net positive. At least, that is so, if what you care about is human health and happiness. Too many environmentalists think people are a net drain. Or at least they think some people are.
    Ouch.

    Now, I know Margaret Sanger is now underneath the weeds rather than up and talking about them, but her spirit lives.
    "I was not elected to do small things or shy away from big problems.” —Donald Trump.

    "I think you called me a liar on national TV." —Elizabeth Warren. "Well, duh." —Bernie Sanders, shoulda said.

    "The way I see it, there's always, c'mon, there's always money. It's there." —Elizabeth Warren, explaining socialism.

    “The interesting thing about the Green New Deal is it wasn’t originally a climate thing at all.... We really think of it as a how-do-you-change-the-entire-economy thing.” —Saikat Chakrabarti, then AOC's Chief of Staff.

    "We have to stop demonizing people and realize the biggest terror threat in this country is white men, most of them radicalized to the right, and we have to start doing something about them." —CNN's Don Lemon, showing how to stop demonizing people.

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    Can't quote Newman today. Assume a quote.

    You may be correct about the agenda of at least some environmentalists. Certainly, I have no use for people who think saving trees and/or animals to the detriment of human lives is a good idea. Rational environmental protection measures are good for both humans and the world we inhabit.

    I also don't know what's in Sanders' heart, but I know what's in mine. If you feed and provide top-notch healthcare to the masses of poor, uneducated people, you get healthier poor, uneducated people who reproduce as frequently as is humanly possible. They then put an ever-greater strain on the local resources, and eventually return to a state of famine. If you teach the masses of poor, uneducated people to feed themselves and provide their own services, they start limiting their reproduction and progressing both economically and socially. I'm in favor of the latter.
    No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. This offer VALID in 35 34 33 32 31 26 20 17 15 14 13 ALL 50 states.

    The new 13 original states to stand up for freedom: CA, CT, IA, MA, DE, MN, NH, NY, RI, VT, ME, MD, NJ (plus DC).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Celeste Chalfonte View Post
    Can't quote Newman today. Assume a quote.

    You may be correct about the agenda of at least some environmentalists. Certainly, I have no use for people who think saving trees and/or animals to the detriment of human lives is a good idea. Rational environmental protection measures are good for both humans and the world we inhabit.

    I also don't know what's in Sanders' heart, but I know what's in mine. If you feed and provide top-notch healthcare to the masses of poor, uneducated people, you get healthier poor, uneducated people who reproduce as frequently as is humanly possible. They then put an ever-greater strain on the local resources, and eventually return to a state of famine. If you teach the masses of poor, uneducated people to feed themselves and provide their own services, they start limiting their reproduction and progressing both economically and socially. I'm in favor of the latter.
    But I can quote you! Ha! Sort of like a one-way window.

    I think there's a definite impulse in activism that entices you to display the depth of your commitment by the sacrifice/hardship you're wiling to advise. I say "advise" because though many do so in their personal behavior (examples abound: diet, fashion [no leather, e.g.], time and money, etc.) many more simply recommend sacrifice for others.

    These prescribers often make no such sacrifice themselves. Right now, for example, I'm reading we can save the earth by eating insects. I eagerly await news of celebrity climate change apostles making insects a regular part of their diet.

    And yet they still pretend that such sacrifice as they would have others make should be the measure of their own righteous concern.

    Your last paragraph brings to mind the hopelessly impossible exhortation to "End World Hunger," or similar laudable, impossible dreams. Tailor made to fuel charity scams, or to simply badger good-hearted people.

    Meanwhile, I read the following article yesterday. The Rats of NIMH was a favorite movie of mine. This piece was originally published a few years ago, but it's fascinating in that the experimenter here seemed to discover that providing a stress-free utopia did NOT produce an endless population explosion, or even a functioning "society" of rats.

    The Doomed Mouse Utopia That Inspired the ‘Rats of NIMH’
    On July 9th, 1968, eight white mice were placed into a strange box at the National Institute of Health in Bethesda, Maryland. Maybe “box” isn’t the right word for it; the space was more like a room, known as Universe 25, about the size of a small storage unit. The mice themselves were bright and healthy, hand-picked from the institute’s breeding stock. They were given the run of the place, which had everything they might need: food, water, climate control, hundreds of nesting boxes to choose from, and a lush floor of shredded paper and ground corn cob.

    This is a far cry from a wild mouse’s life—no cats, no traps, no long winters. It’s even better than your average lab mouse’s, which is constantly interrupted by white-coated humans with scalpels or syringes. The residents of Universe 25 were mostly left alone, save for one man who would peer at them from above, and his team of similarly interested assistants. They must have thought they were the luckiest mice in the world. They couldn’t have known the truth: that within a few years, they and their descendants would all be dead.

    The man who played mouse-God and came up with this doomed universe was named John Bumpass Calhoun. As Edmund Ramsden and Jon Adams detail in a paper, “Escaping the Laboratory: The Rodent Experiments of John B. Calhoun & Their Cultural Influence,” Calhoun spent his childhood traipsing around Tennessee, chasing toads, collecting turtles, and banding birds. These adventures eventually led him to a doctorate in biology, and then a job in Baltimore, where he was tasked with studying the habits of Norway rats, one of the city’s chief pests.

    In 1947, to keep a close eye on his charges, Calhoun constructed a quarter-acre “rat city” behind his house, and filled it with breeding pairs. He expected to be able to house 5,000 rats there, but over the two years he observed the city, the population never exceeded 150. At that point, the rats became too stressed to reproduce. They started acting weirdly, rolling dirt into balls rather than digging normal tunnels. They hissed and fought.

    This fascinated Calhoun—if the rats had everything they needed, what was keeping them from overrunning his little city, just as they had all of Baltimore?

    Intrigued, Calhoun built another, slightly bigger rat metropolis—this time in a barn, with ramps connecting several different rooms. Then he built another and another, hopping between patrons that supported his research, and framing his work in terms of population: How many individuals could a rodent city hold without losing its collective mind? By 1954, he was working under the auspices of the National Institute of Mental Health, which gave him whole rooms to build his rodentopias. Some of these featured rats, while others focused on mice instead. Like a rodent real estate developer, he incorporated ever-better amenities: climbable walls, food hoppers that could serve two dozen customers at once, lodging he described as “walk-up one-room apartments.” Video records of his experiments show Calhoun with a pleased smile and a pipe in his mouth, color-coded mice scurrying over his boots.

    Still, at a certain point, each of these paradises collapsed....
    "I was not elected to do small things or shy away from big problems.” —Donald Trump.

    "I think you called me a liar on national TV." —Elizabeth Warren. "Well, duh." —Bernie Sanders, shoulda said.

    "The way I see it, there's always, c'mon, there's always money. It's there." —Elizabeth Warren, explaining socialism.

    “The interesting thing about the Green New Deal is it wasn’t originally a climate thing at all.... We really think of it as a how-do-you-change-the-entire-economy thing.” —Saikat Chakrabarti, then AOC's Chief of Staff.

    "We have to stop demonizing people and realize the biggest terror threat in this country is white men, most of them radicalized to the right, and we have to start doing something about them." —CNN's Don Lemon, showing how to stop demonizing people.

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    From the link:
    Most frightening are the parallels he draws between rodent and human society. “I shall largely speak of mice,” he begins, “but my thoughts are on man.” Both species, he explains, are vulnerable to two types of death—that of the spirit and that of the body. Even though he had removed physical threats, doing so had forced the residents of Universe 25 into a spiritually unhealthy situation, full of crowding, overstimulation, and contact with various mouse strangers.
    This is the lefts plan for society. Erode our moral values and fill our nation with immigrants. No wonder most people that live in big cities are crazy.

    Mark
    Race Card: A tool of the intellectually weak and lazy when they cannot counter a logical argument or factual data.

    "Liberals have to stop insisting that the world is what they want it to be instead of the way it is." - Bill Maher

    Political correctness is ideological fascism. It’s the antithesis of freedom. Dr. Piper

    Gender is not a "Social Construct", it is an outgrowth of biological reality.

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    Populations are all declining due to a move away from subsistence farming, female education (later age at marriage), and government old age pensions (by whatever name they are called).

    Not one of the hysterical population "bombs" predicted in the 70s or early 80s has proven true.

    The main affect of ready abortion in less developed nations is the skewing of sex ratios. People kill girls either before or after birth and retain boys. Aside from the obvious problems of scarcer marriageable women, an over-supply of young, unencumbered males with nothing to live for results in a lot of violence and very antisocial markets for some things.

    Twenty two year old men with a wife and a kid are too busy working and humping to join dubious causes or cause a lot crime. That's just factual.

    I don't think it matters much if young men have one kid or five kids in marriage (not blow-by kids), the net result is curbing a lot of antisocial behavior from excessive drinking to unemployment and health status.
    "Alexa, slaughter the fatted calf."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gingersnap View Post
    Populations are all declining due to a move away from subsistence farming, female education (later age at marriage), and government old age pensions (by whatever name they are called).
    How's that?
    Not one of the hysterical population "bombs" predicted in the 70s or early 80s has proven true.

    The main affect of ready abortion in less developed nations is the skewing of sex ratios. People kill girls either before or after birth and retain boys. Aside from the obvious problems of scarcer marriageable women, an over-supply of young, unencumbered males with nothing to live for results in a lot of violence and very antisocial markets for some things.

    Twenty two year old men with a wife and a kid are too busy working and humping to join dubious causes or cause a lot crime. That's just factual.

    I don't think it matters much if young men have one kid or five kids in marriage (not blow-by kids), the net result is curbing a lot of antisocial behavior from excessive drinking to unemployment and health status.
    I'm not sure we really know why the rate of population growth has slowed. In developed countries, the better off classes always have fewer children, presumably to conserve assets.

    Beyond that, I don't know.

    The slaughter of tens of millions of girls, sadly, is indisputable.
    "I was not elected to do small things or shy away from big problems.” —Donald Trump.

    "I think you called me a liar on national TV." —Elizabeth Warren. "Well, duh." —Bernie Sanders, shoulda said.

    "The way I see it, there's always, c'mon, there's always money. It's there." —Elizabeth Warren, explaining socialism.

    “The interesting thing about the Green New Deal is it wasn’t originally a climate thing at all.... We really think of it as a how-do-you-change-the-entire-economy thing.” —Saikat Chakrabarti, then AOC's Chief of Staff.

    "We have to stop demonizing people and realize the biggest terror threat in this country is white men, most of them radicalized to the right, and we have to start doing something about them." —CNN's Don Lemon, showing how to stop demonizing people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Newman View Post
    How's that?
    I'm not sure we really know why the rate of population growth has slowed. In developed countries, the better off classes always have fewer children, presumably to conserve assets.

    Beyond that, I don't know.

    The slaughter of tens of millions of girls, sadly, is indisputable.
    Nope, it's factually declining everywhere aside from some areas of Africa. Asia, South America, all of Europe, here, etc.

    It's declining in the Middle East oddly sharply for that region for exactly the same reasons. It would be interesting to follow that particular decline for 100 years since they are also battling fertility issues due to more couples having lethal or non-reproductive issues due to 100 or more years of cousin marriage.

    Interesting fact: while no Middle Eastern countries aside from Israel make much of a splash in science, some are kind of on the cutting edge of some genetic research since they are affected so much.
    "Alexa, slaughter the fatted calf."

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    Every person on the planet could fit in Rhode Island. Are there too many people?

    Mark
    Race Card: A tool of the intellectually weak and lazy when they cannot counter a logical argument or factual data.

    "Liberals have to stop insisting that the world is what they want it to be instead of the way it is." - Bill Maher

    Political correctness is ideological fascism. It’s the antithesis of freedom. Dr. Piper

    Gender is not a "Social Construct", it is an outgrowth of biological reality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gingersnap View Post
    Nope, it's factually declining everywhere aside from some areas of Africa. Asia, South America, all of Europe, here, etc.

    It's declining in the Middle East oddly sharply for that region for exactly the same reasons. It would be interesting to follow that particular decline for 100 years since they are also battling fertility issues due to more couples having lethal or non-reproductive issues due to 100 or more years of cousin marriage.

    Interesting fact: while no Middle Eastern countries aside from Israel make much of a splash in science, some are kind of on the cutting edge of some genetic research since they are affected so much.
    I was asking you about this particular claim, which I don't understand: "Populations are all declining due to a move away from subsistence farming."
    "I was not elected to do small things or shy away from big problems.” —Donald Trump.

    "I think you called me a liar on national TV." —Elizabeth Warren. "Well, duh." —Bernie Sanders, shoulda said.

    "The way I see it, there's always, c'mon, there's always money. It's there." —Elizabeth Warren, explaining socialism.

    “The interesting thing about the Green New Deal is it wasn’t originally a climate thing at all.... We really think of it as a how-do-you-change-the-entire-economy thing.” —Saikat Chakrabarti, then AOC's Chief of Staff.

    "We have to stop demonizing people and realize the biggest terror threat in this country is white men, most of them radicalized to the right, and we have to start doing something about them." —CNN's Don Lemon, showing how to stop demonizing people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 80zephyr View Post
    Every person on the planet could fit in Rhode Island. Are there too many people?

    Mark
    There damned well is if I happen to be in Providence at the time.
    Leftists have unquestionably demonstrated their hatred for due process, and Democrats have undeniably obstructed justice for, and thoroughly victim-shamed and smeared, Karen Monahan.

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