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Thread: 'Faithless elector': Supreme Court will hear case that could change how presidents are chosen

  1. #11
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    Modern Political Thought: This Electoral College thing appears to be thwarting the political will of the governed. Maybe we should rethink this.

    Neo-feudalists: FOUNDING FATHERS!!!

    Founding Fathers: Trusted men of good character and discernment will be chosen by the citizens, or legislatures, of the Several States to cast their ballot for chief magistrate of this union.

    Neo-feudalists: GARBLFLARBLE!!!!!1!!

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Jingo View Post
    Modern Political Thought: This Electoral College thing appears to be thwarting the political will of the governed. Maybe we should rethink this.

    Neo-feudalists: FOUNDING FATHERS!!!

    Founding Fathers: Trusted men of good character and discernment will be chosen by the citizens, or legislatures, of the Several States to cast their ballot for chief magistrate of this union.

    Neo-feudalists: GARBLFLARBLE!!!!!1!!
    It was pretty cool when 25% of Washington States electors refused to vote for Hillary. One even went to Faith Spotted Eagle.

    What could possibly go wrong having electors ignore the will of the people?
    If it pays, it stays

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm dePlume View Post
    I don't think the electoral college is a good idea.
    Ok.

    Quote Originally Posted by Norm dePlume View Post
    But, as I understand it, the court is not supposed to concern itself with whether or not something is a good idea. They are only supposed to interpret the law (including the ultimate law of the land, aka the Constitution).
    I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Norm dePlume View Post
    Also, the originalists are supposed to concern themselves with what the original writers were thinking. In this case, that makes Hamilton's Federalist Paper applicable even though it isn't a legal document. So any of the Supremes that stick to originalism are pretty much gonna have to conclude that electors should be free to make their own choices.
    I don't think it's that simple. Hamilton is but one opinion and he's also wishy-washy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Norm dePlume View Post
    And also, the electoral college as it is currently implemented does not work the way the founders intended it, so when people make the argument that changing it goes against the wisdom of the founders, I don't buy that argument. We wouldn't be changing the founders' version of it, we'd be changing an already changed, later version of it.
    Perhaps. Regardless, changing what we have now might not be a good idea. It's certainly not one popular enough to amend the Constitution.
    "What truly matters is not which party controls our government, but whether our government is controlled by the people. January 20th 2017, will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again. The forgotten men and women of our country will be forgotten no longer."

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    Time will tell.

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  5. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Jingo View Post
    Modern Political Thought: This Electoral College thing appears to be thwarting the political will of the governed. Maybe we should rethink this.

    Neo-feudalists: FOUNDING FATHERS!!!

    Founding Fathers: Trusted men of good character and discernment will be chosen by the citizens, or legislatures, of the Several States to cast their ballot for chief magistrate of this union.

    Neo-feudalists: GARBLFLARBLE!!!!!1!!
    Notice how you only ascribe one opinion to "Modern Political Thought."

    This is why nobody takes you seriously.
    "What truly matters is not which party controls our government, but whether our government is controlled by the people. January 20th 2017, will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again. The forgotten men and women of our country will be forgotten no longer."

    link

    Time will tell.

  6. #15
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    In most states, Electors ARE free to vote as they wish.

    This is why Electors are selected by the Party. It is almost always in the interest of the Elector to toe the party line, usually due to personal or professional connections.

    This lawsuit won't change that, and the few "faithless" Electors who occasionally pop up won't concern themselves with whether they can legally vote against the State's choice. If they are going to turn against their Party benefactors, they have decided that their changed vote is a matter of Principle.

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  8. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djharkavy View Post
    In most states, Electors ARE free to vote as they wish.

    This is why Electors are selected by the Party. It is almost always in the interest of the Elector to toe the party line, usually due to personal or professional connections.

    This lawsuit won't change that, and the few "faithless" Electors who occasionally pop up won't concern themselves with whether they can legally vote against the State's choice. If they are going to turn against their Party benefactors, they have decided that their changed vote is a matter of Principle.
    Very few indeed, over the years, for the reasons you give.

    In 2016 and 2000 there was a forlorn hope enough faithless Electors would turn the election. It actually cost Hillary two or three votes, as I recall.

    However, this only matters if an Elector's switcheroo reverses the election result, and like the popular pacts (popular among frustrated blue voters), they only "work" if Electors repudiate their own constituents, and their patrons, per your posts.

    It's hard for me to imagine any person committing such an act, when it comes down to making that difference. Maybe John McCain, but he's room temperature. At least his earthly remains are.
    • "The Constitution is not suspended in times of crisis." — AG William Barr.
    • "We hold these truths to be self evident. All men and women created by the, you know, you know, the thing." —Joe Biden, explaining the Creator.
    • "The way I see it, there's always, c'mon, there's always money. It's there." —Elizabeth Warren, explaining socialism.
    • “The interesting thing about the Green New Deal is it wasn’t originally a climate thing at all.... We really think of it as a how-do-you-change-the-entire-economy thing.” —Saikat Chakrabarti, then AOC's Chief of Staff.
    • "We have to stop demonizing people and realize the biggest terror threat in this country is white men, most of them radicalized to the right, and we have to start doing something about them." —CNN's Don Lemon, showing how to stop demonizing people.
    • "I was not elected to do small things or shy away from big problems.” —Donald Trump.


  9. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm dePlume View Post
    And also, the electoral college as it is currently implemented does not work the way the founders intended it, so when people make the argument that changing it goes against the wisdom of the founders, I don't buy that argument. We wouldn't be changing the founders' version of it, we'd be changing an already changed, later version of it.
    I don't agree, but it's also true that the Founders did not envision the rise of political Parties as we know them, and their effectively elimination of minor parties from representation in D.C.

    But they lived to see it happen, and they did not see fit to revisit the Constitution. Same with free speech, for example. The Founders lived to endure some of the crudest campaigns in our history, full of lies and salacious gossip, and they did not see fit to trim the First Amendment.

    They saw the E.C. work, they saw presidential elections thrown to the House, and they did not see fit to change the Constitution.

    I think their life experience and actions, or deference in this case, is another argument for a similar confidence in the Constitution, over our passions of the moment.
    • "The Constitution is not suspended in times of crisis." — AG William Barr.
    • "We hold these truths to be self evident. All men and women created by the, you know, you know, the thing." —Joe Biden, explaining the Creator.
    • "The way I see it, there's always, c'mon, there's always money. It's there." —Elizabeth Warren, explaining socialism.
    • “The interesting thing about the Green New Deal is it wasn’t originally a climate thing at all.... We really think of it as a how-do-you-change-the-entire-economy thing.” —Saikat Chakrabarti, then AOC's Chief of Staff.
    • "We have to stop demonizing people and realize the biggest terror threat in this country is white men, most of them radicalized to the right, and we have to start doing something about them." —CNN's Don Lemon, showing how to stop demonizing people.
    • "I was not elected to do small things or shy away from big problems.” —Donald Trump.


  10. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newman View Post
    ... they did not see fit to change the Constitution.
    Yes they did. It’s called the 12th Amendment.

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  12. #19
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    I stand amended.
    • "The Constitution is not suspended in times of crisis." — AG William Barr.
    • "We hold these truths to be self evident. All men and women created by the, you know, you know, the thing." —Joe Biden, explaining the Creator.
    • "The way I see it, there's always, c'mon, there's always money. It's there." —Elizabeth Warren, explaining socialism.
    • “The interesting thing about the Green New Deal is it wasn’t originally a climate thing at all.... We really think of it as a how-do-you-change-the-entire-economy thing.” —Saikat Chakrabarti, then AOC's Chief of Staff.
    • "We have to stop demonizing people and realize the biggest terror threat in this country is white men, most of them radicalized to the right, and we have to start doing something about them." —CNN's Don Lemon, showing how to stop demonizing people.
    • "I was not elected to do small things or shy away from big problems.” —Donald Trump.


  13. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Jingo View Post
    Modern Political Thought: This Electoral College thing appears to be thwarting the political will of the governed. Maybe we should rethink this.

    Neo-feudalists: FOUNDING FATHERS!!!

    Founding Fathers: Trusted men of good character and discernment will be chosen by the citizens, or legislatures, of the Several States to cast their ballot for chief magistrate of this union.

    Neo-feudalists: GARBLFLARBLE!!!!!1!!
    Do away with the college and watch every candidate neglect the small states. Say Billy, who do you think they would represent when they are elected president?

    Mark
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