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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbit View Post
    International First Class on Emirates or even British Air is like having your own apartment.
    Ha! I'll take your word for it.

    After college my first rented room was $9/week in Bloomington, IN. It was in the attic so you couldn't stand up in it.

    My first apartment was on the Upper West Side of Manhattan in 1975 or 1976, a furnished half floor in a brownstone for $135/mo. (This was in the depths of the NYC bankruptcy.)

    I used to say it was so dark I had trouble growing mushrooms. If ever I was flying it wasn't on an airplane.
    • “Weakness is refusing to take responsibility for your own actions, weakness is pointing your finger at someone else in a time of crisis." — Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey, blaming Trump.
    • "We hold these truths to be self evident. All men and women created by the, you know, you know, the thing." —Joe Biden, explaining the Creator.
    • "The way I see it, there's always, c'mon, there's always money. It's there." —Elizabeth Warren, explaining socialism.
    • “The interesting thing about the Green New Deal is it wasn’t originally a climate thing at all.... We really think of it as a how-do-you-change-the-entire-economy thing.” —Saikat Chakrabarti, then AOC's Chief of Staff.
    • "We have to stop demonizing people and realize the biggest terror threat in this country is white men, most of them radicalized to the right, and we have to start doing something about them." —CNN's Don Lemon, showing how to stop demonizing people.


  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newman View Post
    Heck, G-snap, even I would rather drive than take a bus.

    I don't know nothing about berthin' no 1st class, that's for sure. I think I've flown first class once, on stand-by.
    Business class isn't completely awful yet but by the time you pay for that, first class doesn't look too bad.

    I've both driven and taken very long distance buses. They each have pros and cons. You obviously run your own show with driving which can be pretty good. The downside is the time. You're gonna have to pull over to visit the bathroom or sleep. The bus just goes. It makes stops at eateries but it will run all night and the bathroom is included.

    Plus, you meet some interesting types on buses. A lot of psychos and future felons but also a lot of sweet and interesting people.
    "Alexa, slaughter the fatted calf."

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newman View Post
    I don't have my dates lined up (no Googling here, yet), but as I recall air travel in those wonderful days was price-controlled, which allowed for pretty comfortable rides for those who could afford it. Eastern in its heyday was first class, and people wore their Sunday best to fly.

    that managed to pierce the price control barrier, or when it was, but it was a very big deal, and air travel hasn't been the same since.

    The History.com agitprop piece somehow neglected to mention that it was illegal for the air traffic controllers to strike. But we had grown accustomed to illegal strikes. Teachers did it all the time, and amnesty was their #1 demand.

    Everyone expected the pattern to apply here, despite Reagan's stern warnings otherwise. I for one fully expected business as usual.

    When PATCO called Reagan's bluff, or so they thought, people were shocked, and swaggering Big Labor was set back on its heels. Someone at a press conference asked Reagan why he fired them all, and he replied, I quote from memory, "Fire them? As far as I'm concerned, they just quit."

    We were treated for may months with stories of pathos about the fired controllers settling for new careers and so on. Maybe they became coders. We were told we would entering a dangerous era of ill-managed air traffic.

    But business leaders took from it that they would be backed up by standing firm, and so they did. Again, I don't have charts and hyperlinks in front of me, but I bet you will see from that point a markedly more steep decline of private union membership.

    The air traffic controller's union was decertified, and the History.com scholar leaves you to think it was because Reagan was mad. Without understanding that the strike was illegal, the author gives you no alternative explanation.

    Reagan's firing the air traffic controllers was much more important that you could know for reading this cheap shot piece at History.com.

    If the writer had been honest he could have made a broader point of considerable import in the history of labor relations. As it is, it's a sophomoric shot at Reagan.
    World Airways broke the grip of the majors on Eastern Seaboard flights to Orlando, and transcontinental lights. $117 each way from DC to LA/SF.
    You reached for the secret too soon, you cried for the moon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Newman View Post

    The best years were after dereg and before 9-11, when you could run into the airport like OJ Simpson, pay bus fare, and race to the gate for the NY-DC shuttle. Smoking in the back, in those days.
    Southwest Airlines back in the good old days. Free drinks on flights before 7:00pm. ****************sigh************* Nevermore again.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newman View Post
    A dollar in 1973 would cost about $6.05 today. so a $224 fare would be about $1,355 today. Actually today's prices are pretty competitive. Less than $500.

    Followed your link and the cheapest I saw was $1386. That doesn't include all the crap they tack on when you check out. We paid $224, total, round-trip. Not the red-eye, either.
    No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. This offer VALID in 35 34 33 32 31 26 20 17 15 14 13 ALL 50 states.

    The new 13 original states to stand up for freedom: CA, CT, IA, MA, DE, MN, NH, NY, RI, VT, ME, MD, NJ (plus DC).

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celeste Chalfonte View Post
    Followed your link and the cheapest I saw was $1386. That doesn't include all the crap they tack on when you check out. We paid $224, total, round-trip. Not the red-eye, either.
    Are you saying you prefer 1973 air travel to today? With all the issues?

    Travel agents were gatekeepers. That was a bunch of bullshit.

    Also this:

    Being an air hostess, according to Clark, was ‘not a career’, indeed most airlines retired their hostesses before the age of 35. And that’s if they met the hiring criteria in the first place. ‘Overweight girls are out. Airlines don’t usually take girls who wear dentures, or spectacles, and none would take a girls with a pronounced accent.’
    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...ial-air-travel
    "What truly matters is not which party controls our government, but whether our government is controlled by the people. January 20th 2017, will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again. The forgotten men and women of our country will be forgotten no longer."

    link

    Time will tell.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott View Post
    Are you saying you prefer 1973 air travel to today? With all the issues?

    Travel agents were gatekeepers. That was a bunch of bullshit.

    Also this:



    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...ial-air-travel
    A year or so ago I was at a bar/restaurant with a male friend watching a classic jazz band. Next to us was a table of four elderly women who asked us to snap their picture.

    We stuck up a very pleasant conversation and enjoyed the evening as a group. They were Pan-Am stewardesses having a reunion. I think Pan-Am was la crème de la crème in its day.

    So I was able to tell my wife the next day that I spent the night at a bar chatting up some airline stewardesses.

    • “Weakness is refusing to take responsibility for your own actions, weakness is pointing your finger at someone else in a time of crisis." — Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey, blaming Trump.
    • "We hold these truths to be self evident. All men and women created by the, you know, you know, the thing." —Joe Biden, explaining the Creator.
    • "The way I see it, there's always, c'mon, there's always money. It's there." —Elizabeth Warren, explaining socialism.
    • “The interesting thing about the Green New Deal is it wasn’t originally a climate thing at all.... We really think of it as a how-do-you-change-the-entire-economy thing.” —Saikat Chakrabarti, then AOC's Chief of Staff.
    • "We have to stop demonizing people and realize the biggest terror threat in this country is white men, most of them radicalized to the right, and we have to start doing something about them." —CNN's Don Lemon, showing how to stop demonizing people.


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  9. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott View Post
    Are you saying you prefer 1973 air travel to today? With all the issues?

    Travel agents were gatekeepers. That was a bunch of bullshit.

    Also this:



    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...ial-air-travel
    I'm saying that being an air passenger was a vastly more pleasant (and frequently less costly, relatively speaking) experience.

    As a young feminist, of course I was aware of the sexism in airline employment, and believe me, it was far from the only line of employment in which that was a problem. I could tell you stories that would horrify you, especially as a father of girls.

    I never minded paying an agent their fee to make all the arrangements and get me exactly what I wanted. Do you know how much time I waste these days online trying to find the best deal in a time-frame that even remotely meets my needs?
    No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. This offer VALID in 35 34 33 32 31 26 20 17 15 14 13 ALL 50 states.

    The new 13 original states to stand up for freedom: CA, CT, IA, MA, DE, MN, NH, NY, RI, VT, ME, MD, NJ (plus DC).

  10. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celeste Chalfonte View Post
    I'm saying that being an air passenger was a vastly more pleasant (and frequently less costly, relatively speaking) experience.

    As a young feminist, of course I was aware of the sexism in airline employment, and believe me, it was far from the only line of employment in which that was a problem. I could tell you stories that would horrify you, especially as a father of girls.

    I never minded paying an agent their fee to make all the arrangements and get me exactly what I wanted. Do you know how much time I waste these days online trying to find the best deal in a time-frame that even remotely meets my needs?
    I'm fairly sure I know what you mean, apart from horrifying particulars, of course.

    But I'm trying to throw my head back to those years, because the "girls" who became Pan-Am stewardesses were not slouching around feeling put upon; they were excited for their status. It was much like the Miss America contest, in a different line of work. They were winners.

    The ex-stewardesses we spoke to in the aforementioned story completely brushed off concern about lecherous men in those days. Now, surely they were not going to spill lurid stories in our casual setting, but they said that men were easy to handle, reminding me of My Big, Fat Greek Wedding ("Let me tell you something Toula; the man is the head, but the woman is the neck and she can turn the head any way she wants.") The reunioners we met were proud of their experience, and of course more interested in their bond of friendship that endured the half century since.

    I was a mere child in those years, of course. So I'm interested in your much more mature take on it all.

    This description rings true, and it's noticeably absent the sexist abuse we tend to assume they endured:
    . . . Readers who grew up in the 1970s or later may need to be reminded that stewardesses are what flight attendants were called once upon a time when they were uniformly young, single, slim, attractive, and female. A good smile (all teeth, no gums) and some ability as a conversationalist were further prerequisites. Sonnie Morrow Sims, for one, fit the bill in all particulars. In the early 1960s she might have been described as a leggy blonde; then, as now, it was a skill set that could open many doors. As a 20-year-old college dropout, she began flying for American Airlines in 1962, a time when air travel in general was a far more rarefied experience than it is today: even on routine flights she would pass out roses to women passengers and serve seven-course meals on fine china and linen tablecloths. She also flew on special charters such as the plane that took the Beatles from city to city in 1966 on their last U.S. tour and the government-contracted flights that ferried soldiers to Vietnam and, if they were fortunate, back home again. Flying with the Beatles was fun: she saved the utensils and everything else they touched in airsickness bags and sent it to her kid sister back home in Minnesota. The Vietnam flights were fun, too, in their way, though when the young soldiers she had just spent hours getting to know deplaned in Saigon or Da Nang, she would lock herself in the bathroom and sob, unable to say good-bye.

    Not every stewardess at every airline had the opportunity to knock a bowl of cereal into John Lennon’s lap (he refused to laugh it off) or get shot at during takeoff by the Vietcong (they missed), but, for most, flying was an adventure in and of itself at a time when the average woman got married at the age of 20 and when opportunities outside the home were limited to teaching, nursing, and the secretarial pool. “None of that appealed to me,” says Sims. “I just really wanted to travel.” Well, sure. And for tens of thousands of young women like her, women who were spirited and daring, who may have wanted to meet Mr. Right, but not before a bit of larking about (“This morning, sight-seeing in New York—and in about five hours, I’ll meet my date for dinner in San Francisco,” read a 1961 recruiting ad for American Airlines), the draw was obvious. “Marriage is fine! But shouldn’t you see the world first?” asked a 1967 United Airlines ad. Yes, most stewardesses would have answered, endorsing both sides of the equation.

    “These women almost to a person were kind of the black sheep of their families,” says Laurie Power, who flew for TWA for 29 years, beginning in 1963. “They left”—home, college, other jobs—“because they couldn’t stand the drudgery of everyday life, which was marriage or teaching, and washing on Monday and ironing on Tuesday. So life as a stewardess took on a more dramatic, rather more interesting scale.” In Power’s case, that would translate into invitations to parties thrown by big-shot Hollywood producers, to countless hotel and restaurant openings, and, once, to a cruise on a yacht owned by John Theodoracopulos, one of the richest men in Greece. “A bevy of flight attendants in any gathering was always a good thing,” she says. “A bunch of pretty girls sitting around a pool—people were always inviting us here and there and everywhere, because we were sort of like icing, I suppose.”
    • “Weakness is refusing to take responsibility for your own actions, weakness is pointing your finger at someone else in a time of crisis." — Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey, blaming Trump.
    • "We hold these truths to be self evident. All men and women created by the, you know, you know, the thing." —Joe Biden, explaining the Creator.
    • "The way I see it, there's always, c'mon, there's always money. It's there." —Elizabeth Warren, explaining socialism.
    • “The interesting thing about the Green New Deal is it wasn’t originally a climate thing at all.... We really think of it as a how-do-you-change-the-entire-economy thing.” —Saikat Chakrabarti, then AOC's Chief of Staff.
    • "We have to stop demonizing people and realize the biggest terror threat in this country is white men, most of them radicalized to the right, and we have to start doing something about them." —CNN's Don Lemon, showing how to stop demonizing people.


  11. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newman View Post
    I'm fairly sure I know what you mean, apart from horrifying particulars, of course.

    But I'm trying to throw my head back to those years, because the "girls" who became Pan-Am stewardesses were not slouching around feeling put upon; they were excited for their status. It was much like the Miss America contest, in a different line of work. They were winners.

    The ex-stewardesses we spoke to in the aforementioned story completely brushed off concern about lecherous men in those days. Now, surely they were not going to spill lurid stories in our casual setting, but they said that men were easy to handle, reminding me of My Big, Fat Greek Wedding ("Let me tell you something Toula; the man is the head, but the woman is the neck and she can turn the head any way she wants.") The reunioners we met were proud of their experience, and of course more interested in their bond of friendship that endured the half century since.

    I was a mere child in those years, of course. So I'm interested in your much more mature take on it all.

    This description rings true, and it's noticeably absent the sexist abuse we tend to assume they endured:
    I think that was largely true. The selection/training process for stewardesses was extremely competitive. You weren't there unless you really wanted the job. It wasn't like being pushed into doing laundry for neighbors or pushing cans of peaches around on a grocery checkout counter because Mom needed rent money.

    Many of those women made good marriages through meeting businessmen or pilots which was an eventual goal for most. Generally higher income and ambitious men unlike Johnny at the local gas station.

    Women generally look out for their own interests one way or another. We may not always agree with their choices during other eras but they did have them and exercised them as well as their looks, youth, and adventurism allowed (which was more than we often think).
    "Alexa, slaughter the fatted calf."

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