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Thread: Rev. Franklin Graham Decision America Tour

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by 80zephyr View Post
    The Dems believe in abortion. For a lot of the religious, thats a deal breaker.

    Mark
    Quote Originally Posted by Gingersnap View Post
    But not really this issue.
    It was when I typed it (see above). Others were just faster to post.

    Most church-goers I have spoken with like it that Trump maybe wants to support limiting elective abortions to 3 months or less (as virtually all European countries do) but that wasn't their biggest thing.

    It was the Supreme Court picks and freedom of religion issues. Most people don't agree that a person should be forced to accommodate a behavior while using their creative efforts.


    Sell a cake or a loaf of bread or take a picture of a lesbian? No problem. Be forced by the legal system to create a wedding cake, a dress, or whatever to solely acknowledge a lifestyle that is sinful? Not so much.

    This is especially true today when any person wanting this kind of thing can find many vendors willing to do it. When Muslim bakeries have been caught on camera refusing to make these cakes, nothing has happened to them. They have not been dragged into court, bankrupted, or villified.
    I've boycotted anything owned by NOI for years, even before the Your Black Muslim Bakery scandal, as have many others of my acquaintance. Their position on women and gay people is hateful. I only know of one business owned by real Muslims, and their dishes don't look clean, so their politics have never become an issue. I wouldn't eat there if they donated to HRC.
    No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. This offer VALID in 35 34 33 32 31 26 20 17 15 14 13 ALL 50 states.

    The new 13 original states to stand up for freedom: CA, CT, IA, MA, DE, MN, NH, NY, RI, VT, ME, MD, NJ (plus DC).

  2. #42
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    I was just commenting on the failure of the guy to get Christians to engage using biblical principles. Obviously, if you are some Prosperity Gospel type or the like, your idea of biblical principles will differ from mine. I cannot speak to that.
    "The universe we live in increasingly resembles some kind of dark satire about the decline of the United States."

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celeste Chalfonte View Post
    It was when I typed it (see above). Others were just faster to post.



    I've boycotted anything owned by NOI for years, even before the Your Black Muslim Bakery scandal, as have many others of my acquaintance. Their position on women and gay people is hateful. I only know of one business owned by real Muslims, and their dishes don't look clean, so their politics have never become an issue. I wouldn't eat there if they donated to HRC.
    That may well be true or even effective where you live. It isn't out here. Out here people get bankrupted and fined by the government for refusing to use their creative efforts on behalf of things or behaviors that go against their conscience.

    Not Muslims, obviously.

    Good for you living in a place where this never happens.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Jingo View Post
    I was just commenting on the failure of the guy to get Christians to engage using biblical principles. Obviously, if you are some Prosperity Gospel type or the like, your idea of biblical principles will differ from mine. I cannot speak to that.
    We elected a president, not a preacher. Trump's job is not to get Christians to engage in biblical principles. That is Graham's job. While he's gotten too political, he's still a preacher who encourages people to live biblically.


    What's being left out of this drama is that a lot of Christians are torn every election. No, many Christians do not find Republican fiscal ideas to be Christian. They want tax money to go toward helping the poor. However, they don't necessarily want their tax dollars going to fund abortions. They don't want people to be forced to bake cakes or take pictures for a gay wedding. I am actually hoping that Trump (to the horror of many so called real conservatives) will make some changes that does help the poor. I did notice he didn't shy away from the idea of helping the poor on healthcare. He told Cruz he wouldn't watch them die in the street. He wants paid leave after having a baby and to rebuild infrastructure of some neighborhoods (won't happen right now of course).

    We shouldn't have to choose between the poor and the unborn every election. I think the Republican and Democrat parties have been really crappy pushing that choice on us.

    Annnnd here's more that's been left out of this drama. A lot of conservatives think the best way to help people is to help each other, even if it hurts them. Those small rural towns pull together to help people. You may feel like an outside when you first meet them, but once you get to know them, they'll defend you in a knife fight. Taking care of our own is very Christian. You won't see a lot of that in Houston or Boone or Chicago or Raleigh. I would know because I've lived in both types of cities.

    And as I've told conservatives, one type of Christian doesn't speak for them all. Christians in Rural town USA have very different concerns than Christians in Miami. The truth is the rural areas have been very poor with no work for years. The Democratic Party hasn't cared much to help them out. Why would they? There is a prejudice that says they're white rednecks with missing teeth and that they hate black people. It's sort of like calling black people thieves and thugs when you think about it. Also, Republicans offered more to farmers and that mattered to them.

    Now, I will turn to the Republican side and tell you all that before Donald Trump spoke up for them, you guys didn't help either. Factories went overseas and you all wouldn't speak against it because that wasn't fiscally conservative. The idea was that people needing work apparently needed to move to Chicago or something. You all wouldn't have deserved the rural vote anymore than Clinton.

    Now that I've pissed everybody off, I must take care of some stuff.
    Like a good neighbor, stay over there.

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  6. #45
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    So, the Left is back to wanting a theocracy again. Figures.
    Leftists have unquestionably demonstrated their hatred for due process, and Democrats have undeniably obstructed justice for, and thoroughly victim-shamed and smeared, Karen Monahan.

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  8. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gingersnap View Post
    That may well be true or even effective where you live. It isn't out here. Out here people get bankrupted and fined by the government for refusing to use their creative efforts on behalf of things or behaviors that go against their conscience.

    Not Muslims, obviously.

    Good for you living in a place where this never happens.
    You're entitled to your perception of those events, and I'm sure you enjoy your outrage.
    No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. This offer VALID in 35 34 33 32 31 26 20 17 15 14 13 ALL 50 states.

    The new 13 original states to stand up for freedom: CA, CT, IA, MA, DE, MN, NH, NY, RI, VT, ME, MD, NJ (plus DC).

  9. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celeste Chalfonte View Post
    You're entitled to your perception of those events, and I'm sure you enjoy your outrage.
    I take issue with that.

    Shouldn't the law apply equally? Can we not expect that a Christian business be held to the same standard of freedom afforded to a Muslim business?
    "What truly matters is not which party controls our government, but whether our government is controlled by the people. January 20th 2017, will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again. The forgotten men and women of our country will be forgotten no longer."

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    Time will tell.

  10. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott View Post
    I take issue with that.

    Shouldn't the law apply equally? Can we not expect that a Christian business be held to the same standard of freedom afforded to a Muslim business?
    I don't understand how your question has anything to do with my post.
    No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. This offer VALID in 35 34 33 32 31 26 20 17 15 14 13 ALL 50 states.

    The new 13 original states to stand up for freedom: CA, CT, IA, MA, DE, MN, NH, NY, RI, VT, ME, MD, NJ (plus DC).

  11. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott View Post
    I take issue with that.

    Shouldn't the law apply equally? Can we not expect that a Christian business be held to the same standard of freedom afforded to a Muslim business?
    A Muslim-owned business should not be allowed to violate the law any more than a Christian-owned business.

    Sent from my phone, using Tapatalk.
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    That's my story and I'm sticking to it...

  12. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djharkavy View Post
    A Muslim-owned business should not be allowed to violate the law any more than a Christian-owned business.

    Sent from my phone, using Tapatalk.
    All mistakes are caused by the phone.
    That's my story and I'm sticking to it...
    Except they don't have to bake wedding cakes for same-sex marriages because gay men don't attempt to force them to do so. Why don't they? Denver, for instance, has Le Bakery Sensual which will design a penis for wedding cake, if that's your pleasure, as well as many bakeries that either don't care or are owned by gays or lesbians. Despite that, the gay complainants against Masterpiece Bakery came from out-of-state and searched to find an obscure bakery in a strip mall which refused them.

    They didn't search for a bakery owned by an observant Muslim or Orthodox Jew. They don't lodge a complaint if a Muslim bakery refuses them.

    I wouldn't ask a Jewish or Muslim bakery to bake an Easter cake. I wouldn't try to make a vegan restaurant serve me steak. I wouldn't demand that a male-only barber shop give me a buzz cut. I wouldn't complain when when a 5-7-9 dress shop didn't carry sizes 14 - 20.

    Wash Times.

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