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Thread: Trump defends judge attack: He's 'of Mexican heritage, I'm building a wall'

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celeste Chalfonte View Post
    We're not talking about someone being passed over for a position. We're talking about Trump saying he should lose his appointment, and Nova saying that his alleged membership in La Raza disqualifies him for the position he already holds. So WTF are YOU talking about?

    Nobody is saying Trump should have to appoint this guy, if he were in a position to do so. TRUMP wants the judge to recuse himself from the case, for no reason other than his ethnic background.
    To be clear, Judge Curiel is not a member of La Raza itself. He is a member of La Raza Lawyers of San Diego which is affiliated with racist anti-american groups that support illegal immigrants. Judge Curiel is however in the violation of the law as an officer of LRSD giving a scholarship to an illegal alien.
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  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm dePlume View Post
    Didn't have time to type "Yes"?
    Yes.
    May we raise children who love the unloved things - the dandelion, the worm, the spiderlings.
    Children who sense the rose needs the thorn and run into rainswept days the same way they turn towards the sun...
    And when they're grown and someone has to speak for those who have no voice,
    may they draw upon that wilder bond, those days of tending tender things and be the one.

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Jingo View Post
    He is normalizing bigotry, cruelty, and sexism. This is a bad thing. I understand that Clinton is Clinton and all that implies but it is really hard to deal with the ugliness that is being mainstreamed but the Trump candidacy.
    To start with, Norm asked a question that people gave answers to that proved him wrong and then along with his shadow went off into another direction. They're the two that will run to Hillz defense...well, pretty much anyone on the left...while getting their full rage on when it comes to Trump and well, pretty much anyone on the right. You can set your watch by them.

    I know you can't stand Hillary. I know you don't want to vote for her. I know you don't always jump like those two do to defend her. But while I think Trump is wrong for bringing up the ethnic heritage of Curiel, he is hardly the first politician or public person who has done so. Some in positions of authority, and using their bully pulpit, have been very bigoted when speaking about certain groups of people.

    So yeah, be outraged over it like others are outraged over Hillz. And you can believe that Trump is saying something that's never been said before but in truth, that shipped sailed along time ago.
    May we raise children who love the unloved things - the dandelion, the worm, the spiderlings.
    Children who sense the rose needs the thorn and run into rainswept days the same way they turn towards the sun...
    And when they're grown and someone has to speak for those who have no voice,
    may they draw upon that wilder bond, those days of tending tender things and be the one.

  4. Likes phillygirl liked this post
  5. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michele View Post
    To start with, Norm asked a question that people gave answers to that proved him wrong and then along with his shadow went off into another direction. They're the two that will run to Hillz defense...well, pretty much anyone on the left...while getting their full rage on when it comes to Trump and well, pretty much anyone on the right. You can set your watch by them.

    I know you can't stand Hillary. I know you don't want to vote for her. I know you don't always jump like those two do to defend her. But while I think Trump is wrong for bringing up the ethnic heritage of Curiel, he is hardly the first politician or public person who has done so. Some in positions of authority, and using their bully pulpit, have been very bigoted when speaking about certain groups of people.

    So yeah, be outraged over it like others are outraged over Hillz. And you can believe that Trump is saying something that's never been said before but in truth, that shipped sailed along time ago.
    I am not outraged by his bigotry; I am bothered by it. It is not casual like a joke about 7-11. It is visceral. And it is being mainstreamed.

    But that aside, I find it funny that Republicans are supporting the liberal in this race because in a race between Clinton and Trump, Trump is the liberal. Adam, I think, understands that (although he could never vote for Clinton). I am surprised that scott doesn't.

    If you want a continuation of the neoliberal capitalist revolution that started with Thatcher in the 70's (and Reagan shortly after), Clinton is the one of the two that you pick. She will do nothing to upset the global order that we have laid down over decades regardless of the damage it has done, and continues to do, to the American worker (its efficacy in raising billions out of poverty elsewhere is a different matter). But Trump? Of the two, Trump would disrupt the free flow of capital, goods, and services across borders; he would build literal and figurative abatis around this nation; Silicon Valley would see the H1B river that flows like Ganges dammed at it source; he would retreat from the world, damaging long term economic, military, and cultural alliances that have served the United States well over the several years since the end of the WW II.

    I understand that the Ryans and McConnells and Corkers of the world think they can control him if he's elected. They are wrong. They can only fight him and in doing so, fight their own base of support.

    I don't know if the Republican Party has been hijacked or if this is who they have always been.
    Last edited by Billy Jingo; Tuesday, June 7th, 2016 at 7:53 AM.
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  6. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michele View Post
    To start with, Norm asked a question that people gave answers to that proved him wrong and then along with his shadow went off into another direction. They're the two that will run to Hillz defense...well, pretty much anyone on the left...while getting their full rage on when it comes to Trump and well, pretty much anyone on the right. You can set your watch by them.

    I know you can't stand Hillary. I know you don't want to vote for her. I know you don't always jump like those two do to defend her. But while I think Trump is wrong for bringing up the ethnic heritage of Curiel, he is hardly the first politician or public person who has done so. Some in positions of authority, and using their bully pulpit, have been very bigoted when speaking about certain groups of people.

    So yeah, be outraged over it like others are outraged over Hillz. And you can believe that Trump is saying something that's never been said before but in truth, that shipped sailed along time ago.
    I asked "How is this not racist?" and the answer is that Mexican is an ethnicity, not a race. So Trump's bigoted attack on the man's ethnicity is not "racism". It's (I guess) ethnicism. And that is somehow a whole lot better than racism or something.

  7. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm dePlume View Post
    I asked "How is this not racist?" and the answer is that Mexican is an ethnicity, not a race. So Trump's bigoted attack on the man's ethnicity is not "racism". It's (I guess) ethnicism. And that is somehow a whole lot better than racism or something.
    It would be "racist" or "bigoted" to say that the judge can't decide his case because he's Mexican and therefore stupid. To say that he can not decide his case because, due to the judge's personal ties to Mexican immigrants and the fact that Trump's stance on Mexican immigration is so well known and so disliked by Hispanics and Latinos (as pointed out again and again by the media and the liberal pundits) and therefore assumed bias, is not "racist" or bigoted. It may very well be wrong, and I've heard lesser reasons for judges to recuse themselves. And it may be ignorant. I'm still not convinced that it's "racist".
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  8. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by 80zephyr View Post
    Because of his associations with groups that are anti Trump.

    Mark
    So no Christians should have been able to preside over the Hobby Lobby case, and no one who has ever voted for either major party's candidates or been registered with either party should have been able to hear Bush v. Gore, no judge who belongs to the Cuban-American Bar Association should be able to hear immigration appeals.....we might as well eliminate the courts. You'd like that, wouldn't you?
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  9. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillygirl View Post
    It would be "racist" or "bigoted" to say that the judge can't decide his case because he's Mexican and therefore stupid.
    Bigotry does not require a sense of superiority or belief in a group's inferiority to your own.
    "The universe we live in increasingly resembles some kind of dark satire about the decline of the United States."

  10. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Jingo View Post
    I am not outraged by his bigotry; I am bothered by it. It is not casual like a joke about 7-11. It is visceral. And it is being mainstreamed.

    But that aside, I find it funny that Republicans are supporting the liberal in this race because in a race between Clinton and Trump, Trump is the liberal. Adam, I think, understands that (although he could never vote for Clinton). I am surprised that scott doesn't.

    If you want a continuation of the neoliberal capitalist revolution that started with Thatcher in the 70's (and Reagan shortly after), Clinton is the one of the two that you pick. She will do nothing to upset the global order that we have laid down over decades regardless of the damage it has done, and continues to do, to the American worker (its efficacy in raising billions out of poverty elsewhere is a different matter). But Trump? Of the two, Trump would disrupt the free flow of capital, goods, and services across borders; he would build literal and figurative abatis around this nation; Silicon Valley would see the H1B river that flows like Ganges dammed at it source; he would retreat from the world, damaging long term economic, military, and cultural alliances that have served the United States well over the several years since the end of the WW II.

    I understand that the Ryans and McConnells and Corkers of the world think they can control him if he's elected. They are wrong. They can only fight him and in doing so, fight their own base of support.

    I don't know if the Republican Party has been hijacked or if this is who they have always been.
    If I'm understanding you correctly, its who we have always been. Those we elected promised us ACTION, but after being elected forgot about us.

    Trump is where he is at because we have been lied to for decades.

    Mark
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    Judges don't simply recuse or resign because they have broken the law, though I would argue that Curiel has indeed broken the law. Some resign because they have substantially damaged their credibility or impartiality in the eye of the public.

    This might interest you, though I confess I didn't know this until I went looking for it just now.

    Section 274 felonies under the federal Immigration and Nationality Act, INA 274A(a)(1)(A):

    A person (including a group of persons, business, organization, or local government) commits a federal felony when she or he:

    * assists an alien s/he should reasonably know is illegally in the U.S. or who lacks employment authorization, by transporting, sheltering, or assisting him or her to obtain employment, or

    * encourages that alien to remain in the U.S. by referring him or her to an employer or by acting as employer or agent for an employer in any way, or

    * knowingly assists illegal aliens due to personal convictions.

    Penalties upon conviction include criminal fines, imprisonment, and forfeiture of vehicles and real property used to commit the crime. Anyone employing or contracting with an illegal alien without verifying his or her work authorization status is guilty of a misdemeanor. Aliens and employers violating immigration laws are subject to arrest, detention, and seizure of their vehicles or property. In addition, individuals or entities who engage in racketeering enterprises that commit (or conspire to commit) immigration-related felonies are subject to private civil suits for treble damages and injunctive relief.

    Recruitment and Employment of Illegal Aliens

    It is unlawful to hire an alien, to recruit an alien, or to refer an alien for a fee, knowing the alien is unauthorized to work in the United States. It is equally unlawful to continue to employ an alien knowing that the alien is unauthorized to work. Employers may give preference in recruitment and hiring to a U.S. citizen over an alien with work authorization only where the U.S. citizen is equally or better qualified. It is unlawful to hire an individual for employment in the United States without complying with employment eligibility verification requirements. Requirements include examination of identity documents and completion of Form I-9 for every employee hired. Employers must retain all I-9s, and, with three days' advance notice, the forms must be made available for inspection. Employment includes any service or labor performed for any type of remuneration within the United States, with the exception of sporadic domestic service by an individual in a private home. Day laborers or other casual workers engaged in any compensated activity (with the above exception) are employees for purposes of immigration law. An employer includes an agent or anyone acting directly or indirectly in the interest of the employer. For purposes of verfication of authorization to work, employer also means an independent contractor, or a contractor other than the person using the alien labor. The use of temporary or short-term contracts cannot be used to circumvent the employment authorization verification requirements. If employment is to be for less than the usual three days allowed for completing the I-9 Form requirement, the form must be completed immediately at the time of hire.

    An employer has constructive knowledge that an employee is an illegal unauthorized worker if a reasonable person would infer it from the facts. Constructive knowledge constituting a violation of federal law has been found where (1) the I-9 employment eligibility form has not been properly completed, including supporting documentation, (2) the employer has learned from other individuals, media reports, or any source of information available to the employer that the alien is unauthorized to work, or (3) the employer acts with reckless disregard for the legal consequences of permitting a third party to provide or introduce an illegal alien into the employer's work force. Knowledge cannot be inferred solely on the basis of an individual's accent or foreign appearance.

    Actual specific knowledge is not required. For example, a newspaper article stating that ballrooms depend on an illegal alien work force of dance hostesses was held by the courts to be a reasonable ground for suspicion that unlawful conduct had occurred.

    IT IS ILLEGAL FOR NONPROFIT OR RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATIONS to knowingly assist an employer to violate employment sanctions, REGARDLESS OF CLAIMS THAT THEIR CONVICTIONS REQUIRE THEM TO ASSIST ALIENS. Harboring or aiding illegal aliens is not protected by the First Amendment. It is a felony to establish a commercial enterprise for the purpose of evading any provision of federal immigration law. Violators may be fined or imprisoned for up to five years.
    Well, I assumed everyone knew that.

    Religious and other organizations that flout the law do so as a form of civil disobedience. Smart people don't expect to escape punishment for civil disobedience; that would practically negate the purpose of it. Civil disobedience aims to change the law by demonstrating to the voting public that it's wrong or silly or harmful to society at large to enact and enforce bad laws. Civil-rights sit-in demonstrators WENT TO JAIL. for their convictions. Some died for them.

    That's different from advocating a change in the law. The entire time that I lived in Florida, I was a member in good standing of the Florida Bar and an active member of organizations that advocated overturning bad laws that prohibited gay people getting married at law, adopting children and otherwise enjoying the full civil rights of all citizens. It was not a conflict and would not have been a conflict if I had been a judge. Because there was a valid legal argument (since vindicated by the US Supreme Court) that Florida law violated the US Constitution, it would not have been improper for me, as a judge, to hear a case on the issue. As it was, IIRC it was a straight Republican Florida judge who threw out the discriminatory adoption laws, but any judge could have done so, as long as s/he ruled impartially on issues of law, and not mere political or religious grounds.
    No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. This offer VALID in 35 34 33 32 31 26 20 17 15 14 13 ALL 50 states.

    The new 13 original states to stand up for freedom: CA, CT, IA, MA, DE, MN, NH, NY, RI, VT, ME, MD, NJ (plus DC).

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