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Thread: Charlie Gard: We are no longer Great Britain

  1. #1
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    Charlie Gard: We are no longer Great Britain

    When a state has the right to dictate life or death of someone, be very afraid.

    Today I feel ashamed to be British. Little Charlie Gard appears to be under a death sentence courtesy of Great Ormond Street Hospital, the British Courts and with the agreement of papers such as the Guardian whose opinion is as expected ‘tripe’ (that’s a British dish of offal). The wonderful offers of help from all around the world have been awesome and deeply moving and in today’s Daily Mail Charlie’s mum explains how she first discovered her son's condition. I don’t know how anyone could be unmoved by such a story and I am sure anyone who is a mother will understand about Connie Yates' Mama Gard maternal instincts.

    On Monday July 10, Judge Francis said the family had until 2 p.m. on Wednesday, July 12 to come up with fresh evidence that proves that an experimental treatment would be beneficial. Sadly that time is almost up.

    The other thing that this story reveals and which disturbs me a great deal is the current state of Great Britain.

    Why can’t Charlie be taken out of the country for the treatment so kindly offered by President Trump and the Pope? Apparently the British courts have the final say and the family has been refused a new judge. I feel like I have been asleep for many years and have suddenly woken up. During my Rip Van Winkle dozing, I have awoken to discover that I now live in a totalitarian state where the courts decide whether my child can live or die; where they can withhold medical treatment as and when they decide; where they can prevent treatment in another nation; where the rights of the individuals involved can be thrown on the floor and trashed like so much refuse.

    My conclusion can only be we are no longer Great Britain but just another country being taken over by socialist, despotic ideologues.
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    I was speaking with my sister about him last night. We both concluded that we THINK if it was us, we'd let the child go. We also agreed that we don't know how we'd react without being put in that situation.

    BUT none of this is the point. The point is the government and a hospital can have a final say so over this stuff and it's not right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    The point is the government and a hospital can have a final say so over this stuff and it's not right.
    It's what you get when you give the government and hospital the right to the decision because they are paying for it. Socialized single payer at its best.
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    I agree with Charles Krauthammer.



    A key for me is Carlson's assertion going in that the parents will be paying for this themselves (through fund-raising, I read). In the Terri Schiavo case a decade ago, I also believed the parents should have been allowed to make the decisions, to be "sovereign" as Krauthammer puts it, until I learned that contrary to my understanding, the Schiavos expected the public to pick up the tab.

    With that, sovereignty is transferred.

    Who'd have thought the antique adage, "He who pays the piper calls the tune," presaged single-payer healthcare?

    Well, a whole lot of people, actually.

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    Under single payer, Charlie Gard will die. Under a free market system, Charlie Gard would die but with a good deal more poking and prodding and experimenting. Under a hybrid system, Charlie Gard would die. Maybe Charlie Gard isn't the best case to make sweeping judgments from.

    I don't know why the hospital won't let the parents take him home. It's not as if the hospital can do anything for him. I just don't see that his case is an inevitable result of the system he's in. There are cases here in the U.S. where courts have ordered medical treatments for children of faith healer parents who didn't want their children in the hospital. That is also the state usurping the sovereignty of the parents.

    “And I got a call from the head of the Boy Scouts saying it was the greatest speech that was ever made to them, and they were very thankful."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm dePlume View Post
    Under single payer, Charlie Gard will die. Under a free market system, Charlie Gard would die but with a good deal more poking and prodding and experimenting. Under a hybrid system, Charlie Gard would die. Maybe Charlie Gard isn't the best case to make sweeping judgments from.

    I don't know why the hospital won't let the parents take him home. It's not as if the hospital can do anything for him. I just don't see that his case is an inevitable result of the system he's in. There are cases here in the U.S. where courts have ordered medical treatments for children of faith healer parents who didn't want their children in the hospital. That is also the state usurping the sovereignty of the parents.
    I'm not sure, but I think the hospital says it's "too dangerous" to move him, or too expensive. It makes little sense to me.

    As to your larger point, Charlie Gard exactly illustrates the downside of single payer, but that does NOT make it a simple choice. Even allowing the child's parents to act, based on financial assets, allows an "unfair" system to continue. Single payer, to the extent that it pretends to be benevolent, is a counterweight against the inequities of life, expressed in dollars and cents.

    The trade off is "sovereignty." Palin tagged it "death panels," and despite the scorn heaped upon her it remains true.

    Decisions must be made about medical remedies, and under single payer they will NOT be made by the family of the patient.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    I was speaking with my sister about him last night. We both concluded that we THINK if it was us, we'd let the child go. We also agreed that we don't know how we'd react without being put in that situation.

    BUT none of this is the point. The point is the government and a hospital can have a final say so over this stuff and it's not right.
    Very good reasoning, Lanie.
    13. “Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.”
    Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy.
    Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Newman View Post
    I'm not sure, but I think the hospital says it's "too dangerous" to move him, or too expensive. It makes little sense to me.

    As to your larger point, Charlie Gard exactly illustrates the downside of single payer, but that does NOT make it a simple choice. Even allowing the child's parents to act, based on financial assets, allows an "unfair" system to continue. Single payer, to the extent that it pretends to be benevolent, is a counterweight against the inequities of life, expressed in dollars and cents.

    The trade off is "sovereignty." Palin tagged it "death panels," and despite the scorn heaped upon her it remains true.

    Decisions must be made about medical remedies, and under single payer they will NOT be made by the family of the patient.
    I thought the downside of single payer was long wait times, shortages of doctors, shortages of medication, and generally people not getting treated. In fact, I'm pretty sure that was Palin's death panels argument -- that her baby would be deemed not worthy of treatment and sent away, which is kinda what these parents are asking for.

    “And I got a call from the head of the Boy Scouts saying it was the greatest speech that was ever made to them, and they were very thankful."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm dePlume View Post
    I thought the downside of single payer was long wait times, shortages of doctors, shortages of medication, and generally people not getting treated. In fact, I'm pretty sure that was Palin's death panels argument -- that her baby would be deemed not worthy of treatment and sent away, which is kinda what these parents are asking for.
    Those are symptoms, certainly. I had dinner a couple of months ago with some friends who had just struggled with some medical issues while in France (mostly). Their emphatic advice was, "Don't get sick in Europe."



    I'm sure you've seen or heard that people must bring their own clean linens to English hospitals, or other disconcerting stories. So-called "death panels" are but another symptom.

    It's ain't good, Norm, but it's a monopoly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm dePlume View Post
    I thought the downside of single payer was long wait times, shortages of doctors, shortages of medication, and generally people not getting treated. In fact, I'm pretty sure that was Palin's death panels argument -- that her baby would be deemed not worthy of treatment and sent away, which is kinda what these parents are asking for.
    I'm curious why you think the English hospital does not let the child be "sent away, which is kinda what these parents are asking for."

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