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Thread: Unconscious Patient With 'Do Not Resuscitate' Tattoo Causes Ethical Conundrum at Hosp

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celeste Chalfonte View Post
    I doubt it would have mattered. Unless you have a health care surrogate on hand to enforce it, they tend to ignore it anyway.
    Oddly enough, when I was going through my mom's illness they consistently asked about DNR'ing her, despite the fact that we were nowhere close to making that decision at the time. When it finally came time to do so, not a single person ever asked to see any paperwork that gave me the right to make that call. It was shocking to me. When I wanted a list of all the meds they were giving her in the hospital when they broke her mind, that I needed 5 copies of paperwork naming me her poa; but tell them not to try to revive her...nada.


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    My dad was in the hospital for some minor procedure. I came to visit him and he had a DNR plastic bracelet on his wrist. I asked him about his choice, and he looked at me stunned. He had no idea what that bracelet meant. He was deaf in one ear, and functionally pretty much deaf in the other. My dad, being who he is, nodded "yes" every time someone asked him a question. So, when they asked him about DNR, he politely nodded.

    Oy.

    Mark
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  5. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillygirl View Post
    Oddly enough, when I was going through my mom's illness they consistently asked about DNR'ing her, despite the fact that we were nowhere close to making that decision at the time. When it finally came time to do so, not a single person ever asked to see any paperwork that gave me the right to make that call. It was shocking to me. When I wanted a list of all the meds they were giving her in the hospital when they broke her mind, that I needed 5 copies of paperwork naming me her poa; but tell them not to try to revive her...nada.
    Funny how stuff works. My dad and brothers and I went to the nursing home my mom was in. She had a feeding tube, and they asked us to allow them to pull the tube, essentially starving her to death. We told them we would think about it, and get back to them. In the interim, mom "woke" up, and started eating on her own. She lived about 5 years after that.

    Mark
    Race Card: A tool of the intellectually weak and lazy when they cannot counter a logical argument or factual data.

    "Liberals have to stop insisting that the world is what they want it to be instead of the way it is." - Bill Maher

    Political correctness is ideological fascism. Itís the antithesis of freedom. Dr. Piper

    Gender is not a "Social Construct", it is an outgrowth of biological reality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 80zephyr View Post
    Funny how stuff works. My dad and brothers and I went to the nursing home my mom was in. She had a feeding tube, and they asked us to allow them to pull the tube, essentially starving her to death. We told them we would think about it, and get back to them. In the interim, mom "woke" up, and started eating on her own. She lived about 5 years after that.

    Mark
    Wow. I was always theoretically opposed to the no feeding bit until my mom went into hospice and I asked about food and hydration. I have to say, their explanation convinced me to let her go without that. That was a sobering discussion.


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    Now more than two weeks, and the Left still remain incapable of saying that Leftist violence is bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phillygirl View Post
    Oddly enough, when I was going through my mom's illness they consistently asked about DNR'ing her, despite the fact that we were nowhere close to making that decision at the time. When it finally came time to do so, not a single person ever asked to see any paperwork that gave me the right to make that call. It was shocking to me. When I wanted a list of all the meds they were giving her in the hospital when they broke her mind, that I needed 5 copies of paperwork naming me her poa; but tell them not to try to revive her...nada.

    Inpatient is different. The EMTs ignore anything but an armed lawyer. They resuscitate. It's what they do. They'll ambu-bag and defib a guy with a hole the size of your fist in the back of his skull.
    Last edited by Celeste Chalfonte; Thursday, December 7th, 2017 at 10:22 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 80zephyr View Post
    My dad was in the hospital for some minor procedure. I came to visit him and he had a DNR plastic bracelet on his wrist. I asked him about his choice, and he looked at me stunned. He had no idea what that bracelet meant. He was deaf in one ear, and functionally pretty much deaf in the other. My dad, being who he is, nodded "yes" every time someone asked him a question. So, when they asked him about DNR, he politely nodded.

    Oy.
    THAT is scary. But not surprising. I was in the hospital briefly for a minor surgery back in the 1970s. The surgical floor was full, so they put me on the medical floor after recovery room. (That, too, was a very poor medical decision, for reasons which will become obvious, but not my current point). The woman in the next bed was Haitian and spoke no English, a fact immediately obvious to me, but which apparently escaped the notice of the entire medical staff of the very expensive private hospital. The (female) doctor came to see her, coincidentally with one of the few male nurses on the unit. The patient was, for starters, certain the nurse was the doctor, and paid no attention to the doctor at all, who didn't seem to notice. After the woman had answered "no" to a whole list of symptoms I had already observed her having, I intervened. Explained to the medical staff that she hadn't understood a word they said, and how I knew that. I offered to translate their questions if there was no one who spoke French on staff. The doctor then learned that the woman WAS vomiting black liquid, WAS having diarrhea, etc., etc. And that, while she was using the bedside toilet chair as instructed (the nursing staff were supposed to be measuring intake versus output), her family was dumping it in our shared bathroom before the nurses could check volume. I wonder if that sweet young suburban doctor ever figured out the woman had yellow fever....

    I, meanwhile, had called my doctor's office and insisted they page him to come discharge me, as I had no intention of even going near that bathroom. He did.
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillygirl View Post
    Wow. I was always theoretically opposed to the no feeding bit until my mom went into hospice and I asked about food and hydration. I have to say, their explanation convinced me to let her go without that. That was a sobering discussion.
    The women in my family simply stop eating when it's their time. I would suspect the drugs they give in hospice suppress appetite, but my great-grandmother wasn't in hospice; she just stopped eating, went to sleep and never woke up. It wasn't a long process at 93. The men have heart attacks and it's never an issue.
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  14. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celeste Chalfonte View Post
    Inpatient is different. The EMTs ignore anything but an armed lawyer. They resuscitate. It's what they do. They'll ambu-bag and defib a guy with a hole the size of your fist in the back of his skull.
    Actually, we had EMT's at least 4 or 5 times before it was time. They all immediately asked about DNR as soon as they saw her. The last time we finally said "DNR". Again, we had nothing that permitted us to do that. But my sister and I had both spoken with my mom by then and we all knew when it was the right time. We couldn't get ahold of hospice right away, so we went to the dreaded ER. Luckily, my sister works for that hospital and the docs were very good about just managing her pain at that point until hospice could come get her. I was adamant that they not do anymore useless tests. This time they agreed with me.

    I've also found the EMT's to be great about not giving pain meds, knowing that what they have to give isn't strong enough; yet if they gave it to her then the hospital wouldn't give what she needed because of overdosing. The EMT's, like nurses, are truly the heart and soul of healthcare, in my opinion.


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    Quote Originally Posted by phillygirl View Post
    Actually, we had EMT's at least 4 or 5 times before it was time. They all immediately asked about DNR as soon as they saw her. The last time we finally said "DNR". Again, we had nothing that permitted us to do that. But my sister and I had both spoken with my mom by then and we all knew when it was the right time. We couldn't get ahold of hospice right away, so we went to the dreaded ER. Luckily, my sister works for that hospital and the docs were very good about just managing her pain at that point until hospice could come get her. I was adamant that they not do anymore useless tests. This time they agreed with me.

    I've also found the EMT's to be great about not giving pain meds, knowing that what they have to give isn't strong enough; yet if they gave it to her then the hospital wouldn't give what she needed because of overdosing. The EMT's, like nurses, are truly the heart and soul of healthcare, in my opinion.
    Wasn't putting them down. They ARE the "heart and soul." And they do what they do to save lives, so for the ones I've encountered, it's just a reflex. Do everything possible unless someone with serious authority says "don't."
    No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. This offer VALID in 35 34 33 32 31 26 20 17 15 14 13 ALL 50 states.

    The new 13 original states to stand up for freedom: CA, CT, IA, MA, DE, MN, NH, NY, RI, VT, ME, MD, NJ (plus DC).

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